here's the difference Joe Bugner...

To truly understand what Bugner was plausibly capable of, one needs to see him afire in crushing Dunn, one-punching Dino Denis, getting off the deck to nearly return the favor to Frazier mere moments later [when Smoke, coming off his title loss to Foreman, weighed in a a reasonably low 208], and actually sticking and moving in his first match with Ali.

Physically, Joe had every attribute a heavyweight could desire. Height, reach, solid chin, quick powers of recovery if hurt [as he displayed with Frazier], excellent power, quick hands, excellent stamina, good cut and swell resistance, and superb mobility. A well schooled pugilist.

Because of his characteristic safety first orientation, he badly lost fights he should have won easily. [He should have crushed Bodell precisely the way he crushed Dunn in 1976, the exact same way Jerry Quarry utterly destroyed Jack a few weeks later in 1971.] However, although the approach he did use precluded his ever winning a world title, he did extend his career over three decades, defeated world title claimants Ellis, Page and Smith, and won over fellow world title challengers Ramos, London, Cooper and Wepner. He defeated Ramos, London, Wepner and Corletti in 1970, Tillis and Bey in 1986. Page was taken in July 1987, when Greg was still only 28. Bonecrusher took place 11 years after Page. [First round shoulder injury by James or not, it still counts as a stoppage win by Joe.]

Fighting always to win, and smart boxing may well have gained him the world title over Foreman [who I believe Bugner had the combination of championship distance experience, stamina, mobility, toughness and power to outlast and knock out late], but he needed Ken Norton's hypnotist to unleash his inner Duran [which Dunn and Denis did show was lurking somewhere inside him]. Leon Spinks proved the 1977-1980 time frame was a horrendous period in which to be out of action. Joe was 27 years old when Leon upset Ali.

Given the proper motivation, yes, Joe Bugner absolutely could have won the undisputed world heavyweight championship during the 1970s over somebody not named Frazier or Ali. I believe he does belong among the pantheon of prominent heavyweights who were inactive when they may well have been at their best.

 

Bugner just did enough to win a fight. If he lost his temper or his life depended on it he could really fight but he was not firing up unless that happened. He was a real athlete and big enough to fight anyone, he could neutralise more instinctive fighters but dominate another era? if he wanted to he could but my hunch is hed fight only as hard as he had to. Nobody can dominate with that atitude in any era.

 

After the first Ali fight in 73 I was VERY impressed with Bugner. Solid chin, good jab, large man, looked to be a very hard 'out' against anyone given his young age. After Foreman's meltdown against Ali and his head demons and strange behavior after that, by 1976, I had three HW's that I thought could beat the fading George: Holmes, Young, and Joe based solely on their styles. But, I was wrong about Joe, never has so little been accomplished by someone with so much talent and potential. Zero career quality wins. Don't bring up the 'name' fighters that were well past prime. And don't bring up Frazier (keep in mind that his Wembley bout with Frazier was right after Joe got humiliated against Foreman) I simply can't give props to a fighter who one praises in a Losing effort. I remember my buds and I attending a closed circuit bout here in Indy July 75. A great card (on paper) for a mere, at that time, $15 bucks! First up? Monzon vs. the undefeated (tho untested) Tony Licata. Carlos had him for breakfast. Next up? WBA LHW champ Victor Galindez vs. Jorge Ahumada (thank God for that one) I think it was their 5th or 6th scrap career. Victor won a clear decision but Jorge was right there thruout. Then came Ali vs. Bugner from Quala Lampur. What a snoozefest! Bugner had his shot and fought ONLY to survive, what a pathetic horsepoo showing from Joe. It was getting late (almost midnight) and we wanted to walk out but decided to stay for the obvious result.
As I said, I loved this guy when I first saw him but by 75-76 I had already 'shoveled him onto the back burner' so to speak.
Lastly, I've said this before but Joe got his first title against an aging Cooper, a fight that many thought Henry had won. In the late 50's Cooper scored a UD against top contender Zora Folley. I've seen the fight (some rounds are missing) and Zora floored Henry early on. But, to hear some say, it was a British highway robbery with the Cooper decision. IMO I saw a different fight. Cooper "the fighting man" came on strong in rounds 8-10 and I, in no way, see this as some sort of robbery. Granted, a year later Folley put Cooper in a 'puddle' in round 2 but that can't diminish his initial effort. Along with Henry's left hook bomb against Clay, his first effort against Folley was very special and, IMO, these things alone trump Anything the underacheiving Bugner accomplished his entire career.
My somewhat weak $0.02.

 

By the way, Carl Williams would not be a super heavy. Sure, he was 6'5", but it was a spindly, frail 6'5". Just wanted to clear that up.

 

Boxrec gives Carl Williams 6'4", that's where I usually consider super-heavy starting. He routinely weighed around 220-235, that's about right for a man that size. If you want to talk spindly and tall, I usually think of Bob Foster and Michael Spinks who spent most of their careers at 175 while being 6'3" and 6'2 1/2".

 

wot e delujenal post rasta

End over sam1 not neimd Earnest Shavers or Duane Bobick or Ken Norton or det 1 complit anown wum KOd him in hiz debut , or George Foreman or _____ ..

Diz R de ppl wu consider Cautious Play end Joe Louis ez de gr8est HWs of ol taims .

 

Folley bit Cooper's S , I wocht it . Folley wanc KOd him end wanc bit him bat woz robd in de UK ez Xpected .

 

Small? he was 6.4, 220, reach of 82 inches that is far from small

 

Bugner mops the floor with Haye

 

An up for it Bugner v Haye would make a good fight.

 

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I M efreid of advertaizing tampons hir , end woz not peid 4 it , so i wil refrein from duing so bat u nid it . U probabli nid n XXXL tampon .

 

Are you capable of speaking English???

 

I think Bugner beats Haye in a competitive fight. He certainly wouldn't mop the floor with Haye.

 

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