Here's Why The Resume Of P4P No. 1 Lomachenko Trounces Bud Crawford's By A Country Mile.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, May 28, 2018.



  1. CST80

    CST80 The Mercurial Malcontent Staff Member

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    Thread Co-Produced by @CST80 and @Serge :D

    Much has been made over the last few months about who the true heir of Mayweather is for the coveted spot atop the mythical P4P rankings. Many a candidate have come and gone, almost as if the position is rejecting pretenders to the throne karmically. First it was Kovalev and Ward, Ward lost the first fight to an unfocused lazy drunken Kovalev and got a gift, then came back the next year against an even more disillusioned depressed emotionally compromised Kovalev who he fought on even terms with again, until Ward decided he couldn't win fair and square so he smashed Kovalev in the balls countless times, to win a tainted TKO victory. Then before he could be crowned the Dirty P4P King, Ward realizing that he needed two matches to beat the shot shell of Kovalev, that he probably would get badly ****ed up by the younger hungrier versions of him at Light Heavyweight, so he took the easy way out and promptly retired, so another potential number 1 flew out the window.

    However there was another heir apparent that got upset inbetween the Kovalev/Ward saga, poor old chubby grumpy munchkin Chocolatito. He decided to duck a Cuadras rematch to go with the "easier" option, and had yet another back and forth toll taking bloodbath against the unheralded Thai monster Srisaket Sor Rungvisai, which he rightfully lost, despite all of the bleating and blabbering by the legions of butthurt fanboys. Then looking for redemption, he chose to rematch Wangek, and instead of rising like a phoenix from the ashes, he got flattened like a scowling bitter little gnat, by way of crushing and beautifully savage KTFO4, it was the definitive Fall Of The Roman Empire, with a sriracha marinated cherry on top. So another contender for the throne outta the way. Sadly Sor Rungvisai aside from his back to back to back masterpieces where he collected the two top shelf scalps of Roman and Juan Francisco Estrada, the rest of his resume leaves a lot to be desired. So no Number 1 spot for the Thai yet, but another P4P win or two might do the trick.

    Still holding out for a hero, the boxing world turned our lonely eyes to Canelo and Golovkin, thinking surely this one won't be controversial.:lol: GGG beat Canelo, but in Vegas Baby, you have to drop Canelo 8 times and KO him twice to get a ****ing SD win, and GGG didn't do that, he just beat him 8-4, and anytime a fighter has the audacity to not win every single round, Adelaide Byrd spitefully gives every last one of them to his opponent. That being said, GGG and Canelo was a very competitive match with neither man truly asserting true dominance in the ring, and even though I thought it was a clear GGG victory, a draw isn't the most egregious call. So... we had to wait a little longer for the inevitable rematch for a P4P savior, but Clenelo's penchant for scarfing down platters of Chepo's Chimichangas made from roided up cows had to be assuaged, so he went to town, and there went the rematch. Canelo instead of pursuing the rematch any further, realizing he didn't have juiced up bovine rocket fuel to fall back on, he probably couldn't beat GGG outright, and since on top of being viewed as the loser of the first fight, and with the added animosity felt towards him for his doping positive, he figured he couldn't win, so he pulled out of negotiations for a rematch like the little pampered punk he is. Yet still no P4P number 1.


    Which brings us to our last two contenders.... Omaha Bud and The Man They Call NoMaschenko.

    In my mind, its crystal clear who the P4P number 1 fighter in the world is as of right now, the question has been definitively answered beyond any shadow of a doubt. Yet still people (who DKSAB) question the validity of this choice. Well I'm going to go all out in an effort to explain in brutally demonstrative fashion why Vasyl Lomachenko is the man. This isn't meant to throw shade on Crawford's in ring abilities, they're dazzling, he's one of the most skilled slick defensive operators the sport has seen since the early days of Pretty Boy Floyd, but no matter how great he may be, that doesn't change the fact that his resume is just okay at best, at worst, its kind of pretty ****ing crappy.

    Since this will probably fall on deaf ears.... Here goes nothing.:lol:


    The Resume Of Terence "Bud" Crawford.

    Briedis Prescott - His glory days of knocking the ever lving dogcrap out of Amir Khan, had long since gone, his best accomplishment post Khan KO was... there wasn't any.:lol: He lost to glass jawed douche Kevin Mitchell, the thoroughly average Paul McClosky, the annoyingly unpleasant Miguel Vazquez and was beaten to a pulp by Mike Alvarado before he started taking his Mile High moniker too seriously. By the time he met Terence, Briedis had become a mere journeyman, who's lost to every decent opponent he's fought post Bud schooling.

    Alejandro Sanabria - So so Mexican who's best wins were over a shot to hell Rocky Juarez and a SD over equally shot to hell Nery Sanguilan, and a loss to hot and cold glass jawed loser/heavy handed beastly upset artist Robinson Castellanos. Most Bud fanboys don't even rate this win. He was a stay busy opponent, brought in to lose. He retired from the sport immediately following his loss to Crawford.

    Andrey Klimov - Pesky featherfisted Russian, who's one and only claim to fame was outboxing John Molina Jr. and he barely did that, after he lost to Bud, he went on to be shutout in dominant fashion by Jose Pedraza and Liam Walsh, both eventual Tank Davis KO victims, then recently he lost to Alejandro Luna, who got decapitated a few months later by Richard Commey. And Bud played it extra safe against Andrey, and put on a coma inducing borefest that had Lampley near apoplectic that he actually had to sit there and commentate on it, and he wasn't exaggerrating, it was an truly awful viewing experience.


    Ricky Burns - Ah, The Rickster... what an impre... thoroughly underwhelming subpar win. Ricky had already lost his 0 to future Lomachenko and Mikey Garcia KO victim Rocky Martinez and add to that he was on his way to another lopsided loss to the glass hearted Jose A. Gonzalez, who was beating his ass so viciously he broke his wrist on him and had to quit, had he not, he'd have probably won, he was ahead on the cards in Glasgow. The version Bud fought had been viciously tenderized by Ray Beltran who literally shattered Burns iron jaw in the second round. Beltran got a draw, which lemme translate, is a win in the UK. Immediately following the loss to Bud, he got beaten from pillar to post by Dejan Zlaticanin, mauled by Figueroa, mauled by Relikh and got a gift and lost to the uncoordinated gawky beanpole Indongo and to Crolla the son of Linares. Totally overrated win.

    Yuriorkis Gamboa - Oh boy, the one the fans always love to bring up, the one I predicted would be a relatively easy Bud KO victory. Luckily for most fanboys of Crawford, most of Gamboa's recent matches had been on PPV or virtually unwatched HBO cards, so his hype far outweighed his actual in ring accomplishments. He went life and death with Salido and was dropped hard in the 8th, the match was far closer than the scorecards reflect, at best Gamboa won 112-111, that's 7 of five rounds before factoring in all the KD's and point deductions. Yes Gamboa went through even more hell against Salido than Lomachenko did. He went on to look okay in beating tough as nails Filipino journeyman Michael Farenas, who almost managed to KO him as well, dropping him in the 9th, that Boxrec tries its best to hide. He looked poor in beating De Leon, and once again looked poor beating Darlys Perez, it was clear to anyone with a few functioning brain cells that Gamboa wasn't living up to his hype and was on a downward spiral, especially when you factor in that he was moving up in weight against a much taller man. It was a brilliantly played sleight of hand by Bob Arum, to all the casuals it looked like a world class P4P win, to the rest of us, we expected it. Since then Gamboa has gone on to be dropped several times and quit against Castellanos, get dropped by Rene Alvarado, barely beat via MD Alexis Reyes???, and lose to Loma KO victim Sosa, and get a ridiculous gift. The win hasn't aged well.... at all.:lol:

    Raymundo Beltran - Good old roided up Ray, the chronic overachiever with his UD losses to Bogere and Ramos and KO loss to Ammeth Diaz, wait... I'm pretty sure if Loma was fighting a guy with a KO loss to Ammeth Diaz and UD losses to Ramos and Bogere he'd be considered a bum, what do you guys think? After being shutout by Bud in one sided fashion, he got on the juice and brutally KO'd Takahiro Ao, which he was stripped of, then KO'd a bunch of other glass jawed okay fighters, probably still on the gear. Then he nearly got KO'd by fidget Bryan Vasquez and went life and death with old ass Paulus Moses. Okay win, nothing spectacular.


    Thomas Dulorme - No great wins coming in, he had a brutal KO loss to Luis Carlos Abregu though, one I predicted.:D He barely scraped by Mayfield and had a controversial win over Lundy, who dominated his ass through the last 5 and debatably should have won. Since losing to Crawford, he was brutalized by Yordenis Ugas, but did a valiant job regardless. Its a damn good thing Crawford managed to stop him, since going into the 6th Dulorme was ahead on 1 card and Bud was 1 point ahead on 2, so Bud wasn't even doing as good as Abregu.

    Dierry Jean - Cleotis Pendarvis and Jerry Belmontes. That's it.:lol: Next!

    Oh wait... he was shutout by Peterson, and had a drug problem going into the Crawford match. Completely worthless win.

    Henry Lundy - I like Hammering Hank, but come on, the man while he poses a few problems for his opponent due to his rough and tumble nature, loses every time he steps up. Molina KO'd him, Postol barely UD'd him, and Beltran beat him barely, so he's below those three. Stay busy fight for Bud.
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 The Mercurial Malcontent Staff Member

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    Viktor Postol - His best wins going in, a ridiculously too close for comfort win against Lundy, a late TKO win over Guerrero and Soto Karass victim Selcuk Aydin, and after playing stay away for the majority of the match, lucked out and landed the perfect punch that momentarily blinded poor shot to **** Lucas Matthysse, who was coming off of two unforgiving brutal matches against Provodnikov and Molina Jr. Lucas was overripe for the picking. After Crawford hauled ass and put on a deplorably cowardly performance against Postol, Viktor went back to Ukraine and got a gift against the undefeated Jamshidbek Najmiddinov, who violently dropped him and didn't get credit for at least 2 other KD's. Najmiddinov basically schooled Postol for stretches of the match. This is one of Bud's top two wins.:lol:

    John Molina Jr. - I love John, but the man can't box his way out of a paper bag, and a wet one at that, he was losing every round to Lundy and Bey before scoring come from behind KO's, he got schooled by Humberto Soto, schooled by Martin Honorio, schooled by Adrien Broner, KO'd in 1 by Demarco, because he was too stupid to take a knee, and utterly brutalized by Lucas Matthysse. So what are we supposed to take away from this win?:lol:

    Felix Diaz - While I really like Diaz, let's be honest, the man tends to struggle in every match against opponents with a pulse, while personally I think he was robbed against Peterson, he did wait far too long before putting his foot on the gas. He struggled early with Bracero and had far too many too close for comfort rounds, IMO he barely beat Granados in spite of dropping him twice, it was a toe to toe war. His big win was over Sammy Vasquez Jr. which for what its worth, was IMO a slightly tainted win, since Sammy was suffering from a tumor on his pituitary gland in his head, which was kinda sapping him of his much needed energy, and even then the match was damn 6-4ish close. After losing to Bud, he went on to have his ass absolutely beaten senseless by Chia Santana, who while I love as a fighter, the man is a tough journeyman at best, no elite fighter has any right losing to him. Felix who's perhaps Bud's best win, was dominated by a 24-6-1 fighter.

    Julius Indongo - Hype job pure and simple, most of us knew that Troyanovsky was a glass cannon, some kept their mouths shut about it (me), some shouted it from the rooftops (IB). The man came within a hair of being brutally KO'd by Claudinei Lacerda and was rocked to his core by Obara, Indongo threw and landed (with his eyes closd:lol:) a lucky punch, that's it. Well he did beat Burns, but who hasn't?:lol: Prograis nuked his ass into next week, stopping him a round quicker than Bud, dropping or hurting Julius with almost every barely landed punch. Only the most naive fans view this as an impressive win.


    Whew:lol: Okay, now that that's out of the way, onto...

    The Resume Of Vasyl "Hi-Tech" Lomachenko.

    Jose Ramirez - Okay, not great, but certainly not bad for a debut opponent. Loma managed to stop him via vicious body shot that literally had him rolling on the ground, Mares took a round longer to stop Ramirez, Valdez a round less. But since then, Ramirez almost managed to upset Golden Boy's at the time undefeated prospect Manuel Avila, losing via SD.

    Orlando Salido - Did he lose to Siri? That's debatable, most knowledgeable judges and even fair minded posters on here, including myself, had it a draw, a close points victory could be argued for Loma, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could judge it in favor of Warlando. I went into the match biased, I'm a huge fan of Salido and picked him to upset Loma, I thought it was a bridge way too far, way too soon for him. So for someone expecting him to lose, I was pleasantly surprised to see him adjust midway through, and take over in the second half and almost manage to stop Salido in the last round. That's a rarity, most opponents start wiling under the pressure, even Mikey was looking for a way out after he was done dirty, and found he it. Even the great Juan Manuel Marquez started to fade late and lost a few to Orlando, Siri is the finisher, not the other way around. Well Lomachenko tore up the rulebook and wrote a new chapter of his own. So... even though he was screwed over by that rotten piece of **** Laurence Cole, screwed by the corrupt judges, he still managed to turn the tide after being hit in the balls over 100 times by a Welterweight who didn't even try to make weight and finished the fresher stronger man gunning for the KO. Think about that for a second... when the hell does a prospect who's longest match gone 5 rounds in the WSB, jump headlong into a 12 freaking round match? Certainly not Mikey Garcia who's first 12 rounder was his 20th match, and guess what, neither did Terence Crawford, his first 12 rounder was in his 22nd match, and that was against Ricky Burns, Both men had more than their fare share of soft touch 4 to 6 rounders. Not Loma, he got thrown right into the deep end, and not only did he learn to swim (while not getting wet), he was swimming better and stronger than a guy who'd been 12 rounds more times than Crawford and Mikey combined. That's truly remarkable. Imagine being tossed in with the dirtiest player in the game, in a 12 rounder, when you haven't even had an 8 rounder, most men's stamina is gone by the 7th or 8th, especially against a savage grinder like Siri, and those are seasoned pros, but not Loma, he was ready for 15 in match number 2, and had it been, he'd have KO'd Salido.

    Gary Russell Jr. - Going in, every one knew how good GRJ was, only he hadn't had a chance to prove it, he with the fastest hands in the west, aside from Vyacheslav Gusev, had fought nothing but Mexican journeymen, albeit KOing most of them in horrific fashion, so in many ways it was a step up in class for both he and Loma. Well Loma laid on a beautiful schooling boxing Gary's ears off for the majority of the not even close to close match. Gary's true worth has shown in his post Lomachenko resume, where he's savagely KO'd in 4 Mares conqueror and fresh off of a beat down win over Jorge Arce, tough as hell Jhonny Gonzalez, it was easy work for GRJ. Then onto his horrific thrashing and near retiring off tiny little war horse Oscar Escandon, who's resume sports KO wins over Jesus Cuellar, (you know, the guy everyone (but me) picked to beat Mares), and more recently he stopped Robin Hood Castellanos, the same guy that beat the crap out of Corrales and got robbed, and stole Gamboa's soul and made him quit. Last but certainly not least, Gary beat his very highly touted fellow 2012 Olympian JoJo Diaz in a close competitive match. This underrated win continues to age like the finest if fine wines.
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 The Mercurial Malcontent Staff Member

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    Chonlatarn Piriyapinyo - Thai journeyman, stay busy match, nothing to see here and certainly nothing special, but still managed to beat him with literally one hand tied behind his back, since Loma injured his halfway through.

    Gamalier Rodriguez - Not a great win either, his best win was Siri KO victim, Orlando Cruz, it was yet another time wasting stay busy fight for Loma. Nothing special again.

    Romulo Koasicha - Third nothing special in a row, even I was starting to get frustrated with Top Rank at this point. For what its worth, Loma beat him in a far more dominant fashion than Brit featherfisted wunderkind Lee Selby.:lol:

    Rocky Martinez - Here's where business started to pick up again. It wasn't shocking that he beat Rocky, who was coming off of two back to back wars with Salido, the first he managed to drop and badly hurt Siri twice and win. Rocky has a damn impressive resume, holding wins over Bud victim Burns, the undefeated and touted Diego Magdaleno, and the very solid Juan Carlos Burgos and Miguel Beltran Jr. Even in his losing effort to Mikey Garcia, he gave Mikey some real issues, dropping him hard in the second, in a similar manner to the Linares KD of Loma. Well Loma topped Mikey in two ways that night, Loma was not dropped by Rocky, in fact he was barely touched, and he violently and I mean violently KO'd Rocky in 5 rounds, it took Mikey 8.

    Nicholas Walters - Sure he has KO wins over blown up Bantamweights in Vic Darchinyan and Nonito Donaire, not impressive right? Wrong. Frampton just went through hell late against a rampaging Donaire who hurt him several times throughout their fight, and Vic went life and death with Cuellar hurting him on several occasions before Cuellar stopped him. Still to this day The Axe Man is the only man to have stopped Donaire, a feat even Rigo The Great couldn't pull off. Walters went on to beat Marriaga, handing him his first 0, far more impressively than Oscar Valdez, who arguably lost to Miguel, and after that went on to basically shutout Jason Sosa coming off of a vicious KO victory over Jerry Belmontes, and somehow inexplicably only managed a draw. The Axe Man was viewed by many as an elite P4P talent or damn close to it, and he was well on his way to being just that, until he got caught in The Matrix, got lost along the way and hasn't found his way out since. Wherever he's at, he's probably still blubbering.

    Jason Sosa - Sure he has an early KO loss to a far bigger man on his record, Tre'Sean Wiggins, who's currently campaigning at Welterweight, but since then he been rampaging his way through Super Featherweight like an overachieving monster. After violently KOing in 1, the guy that took Figueroa to the brink Jerry Belmontes, he got his introduction to the big league in a trial by fire against Walters, and wasn't burned, in a match that while he lost most of the rounds, he did enough to keep almost all of them competitive, crowding and smotherng his way through the match giving Walters absolute hell. After that he went on to be the first and only man to KO brutally Javier Fortuna, who since then has come back to hand a loss to undefeated PBC talent Omar Douglas and in many observers eyes hand Robert Easter Jr. his first loss as well, hurting Easter several times in the process, but of course Fortuna didn't get the win. Fortuna is a very underrated win for Sosa. Sosa also racked up an impressive win over Stephen Smith who'd been on a roll stopping skilled Italian operator Devis Boschiero. By all rights Sosa should have a win over Yuriorkis Gamboa, in a match Lederman had in his favor. I count that as a win for him regardless. Sosa is a damn fine little fighter, and Loma's dominant TKO win over him is vastly underrated.

    Miguel Marriaga - Marriaga stopped Christopher Martin and GRJ did not, he KO'd Guy Robb far easier than Joel Diaz Jr, and put on a fight of the year caliber performance against Oscar Valdez and IMO should have taken his 0. Think about that, Loma stopped the guy who beat Valdez, how great would that sound? But of course it was a Top Rank show, and the judges weren't as fair as they should have been. Not a brilliant win for Loma, but a damn damn solid stay busy fight. Marriaga is also one of his heaviest handed opponents, who Loma chose to go to war with to put on a show, something his other opponents weren't brave enough to attempt.

    Guillermo Rigondeaux - Do I really have to talk up Rigo and his greatness? He only was a mainstay on P4P lists for 5 years after his masterclass schooling of Donaire. So I'm going to focus on the size issue instead. Now much has been made of the size differential between Rigo and Loma, it wasn't a factor in the least, because when someone is skilled enough, like with Mayweather, Pacquiao, Ward, Jones Jr., Hopkins and Leonard moving up, skills still pay the bills, and its not like Loma had a massive power edge. Rigo's power may have been lessened by the move up in weight, but you never know, it may have increased, it happens. But who knows, he never landed a damn thing.:lol: Regardless, Rigo with less power still probably equaled Loma's overall power. So its possible no one had the edge there. As far as weight goes, I doubt Rigo walked around a svelte trim 122 24/7 365 days a year, most likely he walks around in the ballpark of 135. As far as the height advantage of Loma, its not all that great, Rigo has faced giants that could conceivably be fighting at 154 like Amagasa and Flores, both of them the same height as Postol, who fights at 140. Rigo dealt with them with relative ease. Age wasn't necessarily a factor either, after all Jazza, Chucky and Hisashi aren't what I'd call old codgers, they're all kind of spring chickens. Like those two old coots Mayweather and Wlad, the skills in the end matter more than any perceived height, age or weight disparity. Now once you take into consideration Bud's best win being a blown up midget Featherweight, and directly following his match against Rigo, Loma moved up to face a far bigger man in Linares, and recently Inoue destroys a guy he started 3 divisions beneath. Does size really matter here? No, it doesn't. This is a P4P caliber win to end all P4P caliber wins, he literally embarrassed a P4P Top 10 fighter into quitting. What is more P4P worthy than that?

    Jorge Linares - For anyone who mocks Linares for his losses to DeMarco and Thompson, I hate you. You're not a true fan of the sport and you're a repellent human being. Linares fought his heart out with his nose nearly falling off, he boxed beautifully winning almost every round against DeMarco until the loss of blood from the profusely bleeding cut on the bridge of his nose and over his eyes got so great, he was literally wearing a crimson mask, and still no quit in Jorge, finally the ref mercifully stepped in, in the end, that loss in my eyes was more impressive than many fighters wins. It was amazing the amount of heart he showed, and how well he dealt with pressure and adversity while under immense fire. He came back far too soon, his eye got cut early again, Thompson smelling blood jumped on him, the doc stopped it far too early, but for Jorge's eyelid, it was probably for the best. Since then like a phoenix rising from the ashes, for real this time, he's gone on a brilliant winning streak, with wins over Nihito Arakawa, the at the time revitalized Kevin Mitchell, then on to 2 back to back dominant wins over Anthony Crolla, who went on to beat yes... Ricky Burns, his underrated win over Luke Campbell who holds impressive dominant wins over Derry Mathews, Argenis Mendez and Darlys Perez, and most recently Mercito Gesta. The skillset of Linares is immaculate, and his handspeed and timing are things of beauty, there's a reason why so many purists were salivating over the idea of Linares vs. Mikey. He's one of the most talented fighters in the sport today. And Loma was the smaller man moving up in weight, and for some reason pulled off a feat Rigo didn't have the heart to accomplish, oh yeah... because Loma tore it out of his chest and ate it.:lol:

    The reality is, all I had to do is this.


    Loma: Linares, Rigondeaux, Walters Russell Jr, Marriaga, Sosa, Salido

    Crawford: Diaz, Postol, Gamboa, Beltran, Burns, Lundy, Indongo.

    Come on? Who the **** are we kidding here?:lol:

    Now All Hail The King, The King Of Kings!!!

    :ole:Czar Vasyl:ole:

     
  4. Serge

    Serge MUH RUSSIA, NOVICHOK, MELDONIUM, DOE Staff Member

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    Nomaschenko's opponent's win/loss ratio = 352-30

    Crawford's opponent's win loss ratio = 514-205

    And 12 of those Loses on Loma's record belong to Salido.

    Loma was 1-0-0 when he fought Salido and had never been past 5 rounds before

    Salido had only lost 4 fights in 13 years going into the Loma fight

    Mikey Garcia who was 30-0
    Gamboa 18-0
    Juan Manuel Marquez who was 42-2-1 and was just coming of a draw with prime Pacquiao
    SD to Cristobal Cruz who was 36-11-1

    All of those fighters had been past 5 rounds before many times when they fought Salido and into or past the 10th ranging from numerous times to over 20

    Number of world champions beaten

    Loma = 6

    Crawford = 5

    Number of times Loma has fought on the road = 12

    Crawford = 1

    And if you don't think that matters do you think Salido would've beaten Loma in Ukraine? Of course he wouldn't have he would've rightfully been disqualified or the ref would've at the very least deducted multiple points from him and therefore Loma would've won.

    Had Cole just deducted 1 point from Salido the fight would've been declared a draw. How many low blows would Salido have had to have thrown that night for Cole to have taken a point off of him? 100? 200? And how much more flagrant would they have to have been for him to have noticed them?

    And Loma actually out landed Salido by 20 punches in that fight and at least 30-40 of Salido's were South of the border, many of which so flagrantly low Ray Charles could've seen them on a dark night from a mile away

    Do you think a Ukrainian referee would've allowed Salido to get away with doing that all night?

    If Loma had a home ref for that fight or even just one who wasn't as corrupt as sin like Cole he would've

    Still have his undefeated record intact
    Have wins against 7 world champions instead of 6
    And he would've obviously broken the record for becoming the fastest fighter to ever win a world championship too

    Amazing how Laurence Cole managed to miss all those low blows but somehow his eagle eye managed to pick out Abraham and Dirrell's feet getting slightly tangled for the KD he opted not to score in Abraham's favour in round 10


    Number of Ukrainian referees and judges Loma has had for his fights = 0

    These are just some of Crawford's title fights

    Felix Diaz fight - ref and all 3 judges from the US

    Indongo - ref and 2 of the judges from the US

    Gamboa - ref and all 3 judges from the US

    Postol - ref and 2 of the judges from the US

    Beltran - ref and all 3 judges from the US

    Klimov - ref and all 3 judges from the US

    Jean - ref and all 3 judges from the US

    And the ref was even from the US for Crawford's lone fight outside his homeland when he fought Burns in Scotland. The judges all came from neutral countries

    Record in world tile fights

    Loma 10-1 (8KOs) *Loma has only had one non world title fight*

    Crawford 10-0 (7KOs)

    Number of unification fights

    Loma = 0

    Crawford = 2

    But don't forget that Sosa was stripped of his world title for agreeing to face Loma

    Loma only moved up in weight because he was ''daring to be great,'' the other champions at those weights either ducked him, openly admitted they wanted nothing to do with him, or because fights against them couldn't get made for whatever reason.

    Postol and Indongo brought their titles to Crawford's country and the later had a home country ref and 2 home country judges.


    World champions beaten

    In no order

    Loma

    Linares
    GRJ
    Walters
    Rigo
    Martinez
    Sosa

    Crawford

    Postol
    Burns
    Indongo
    Gamboa
    Beltran

    Linares>>Postol
    GRJ>>Beltran
    Walters>>Indongo
    Burns>>Martinez
    Rigo>>Gamboa

    And we still have Sosa who was robbed against Gamboa

    Record against current, former or future world champions

    Loma = 6-1 (5 KOs)

    Crawford = 5-0 (2KOs)

    So Loma has clearly fought the better opposition for his fights again current, former or future world champions than Crawford did but in addition to that he was able to stop 5 of them compared to Crawford's 2 despite him outweighing most of them and Loma being outweighed or the same weight as most of the ones he fought.

    Loma stopped 2 his victims in his first fight at the weight in both instances his opponents where much bigger than him

    Loma stopped

    *His first fight at 135*

    Linares - despite being outweighed by at the very least by 7lbs although numerous sources said it was 14lbs

    *First fight at 130*

    Rocky Martinez - Loma was outweighed by 7lbs

    Nicholas Walters - Loma had a whopping 1lb weight advantage over Walters

    Jason Sosa - Loma was outweighed by 3lbs

    Rigo - I'm guessing Loma had about an 8-10lb advantage over Rigo

    Loma didn't stop GRJ who he had half a pound weight advantage over

    Crawford stopped

    Indongo - don't know what the weights were

    Gamboa - who Crawford had a 7lb weight advantage over


    Crawford didn't stop

    Beltran who he had a 6lb weight advantage over

    Postol who he had a 5lb weight advantage over

    Burns - don't know the weights

    And even though Loma has often been outweighed or the same size as his opponents give or take a pound or a half a pound, he comes to fight and put on a show. He went for the knockout in his big fights against bigger men in Martinez and Linares, whereas Crawford stunk out the joint against the 5lbs lighter Postol who fought him in his country and it's not like the later could ever be mistaken for being a puncher

    Bizarre how the Crawford groupies/Loma detractors discredit Loma by claiming he's a weight bully who's beating up on little guys (which is a complete lie), but not a peep out of them about Crawford who is beating up on guys he has a weight advantage and (often a significant one) most of the time, whereas Loma's been the lighter man in ring or the same weight or roughly the same weight as his opponent give or take a pound or 2 most of the time. So in other words, the complete opposite of Crawford. But he's the weight bully right? lol

    And Crawford has had home advantage against all of the world champions he fought with the lone exception of Burns.

    Compare that to Loma

    Crawford's best win Postol got dropped heavily in his last fight by some obscure prospect from Uzbekistan and he was also dropped in round 1 too which the Ukrainian referee didn't count (home refs and judges is a thing)

    And Postol was on VERY wobbly legs when he hauled his ass back up off the canvas from the KD in round 5 and was badly hurt, so much so that he was very lucky to make it out of the round. He came within a whisker of getting KTFO by a 14 fight novice who'd feasted on nothing but a bunch of scrubs with records like this.

    14-11-0
    14-10-0
    0-1-0
    3-12-0
    0-0-0
    6-9-0
    6-4-0
    3-6-0
    7-6-2
    0-0-0
    0-1-0
    0-0-0
    0-0-0
    0-4-0

    Timestamped

    Check out the KD the ref chose not to count in the first round too



    That's Crawford's best win

    And Postol's only claim to fame is a freak eye injury stoppage over Matthysee and Postol held like a gay octopus for much of that fight too.

    As for one of his other best wins Indongo, well I suspected he was packing Namibian glass in those whiskers of his and sure enough I was proven right.

    Go look at the amount of cotton bud fists and non punchers he'd fought before he ran into Crawford. Yes Troyanovsky hits like a truck but he didn't land a punch when he fought him.

    His 1st (and 2nd) = 15 fights (1KOs)
    3rd = 7 fights (1KOs)
    4th = 1 fight (0KOs)
    5th (and 8th) = 26 fights (2KOs)
    6th = 8 fights (0KOs)
    8th = 30 fights (3KOs)
    9th = 12 fights (0KOs)
    10th = 38 fights (8KOs)
    11th = 36 fights (19KOs)
    12th = 6 fights (0KOs)
    13th = 10 fights (3KOs)
    14th = 3 fights (0KOs)
    15th = 16 fights (3KOs)
    16th = 44 fights (16KOs)
    17th = 24 fights (9KOs)
    18th = 30 fights (13KOs)
    19th = 42 fights (15KOs)
    20th = 32 fights (15KOs)
    21st = 27 fights (23 KOs) Troyanovsky didn't land a punch
    22nd = 48 fights (14KOs) Burns

    Troyanovsky aside, this must be some kind of record for the amount of complete non punchers a world champion has faced. Fact is Indongo has faced 3 opponents with any semblance of real punching power and he was blasted out with ease by 2 of them, and the other one (Tiffany Glass Jaw Troyanovsky) who actually hits harder than Crawford didn't land a punch on him.
     
  5. Serge

    Serge MUH RUSSIA, NOVICHOK, MELDONIUM, DOE Staff Member

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    Ricky Burns is another of Crawford's best wins

    In Burns' fight prior to facing Crawford he won a total gift against Beltran and in his fight prior to that he was getting schooled by Jose A Gonzalez and looked well on his way to losing before Gonzalez had to pull out with a wrist injury. Gonzalez was ahead 87-84 on all three of the judge's score cards at that was in Burns' backyard.

    And in his fight after losing to Crawford, Burns lost to Zlaticanin, so if not for very good fortune and blatant corruption Burns very easily could've been on a 0-4 slump at that time.

    A fight report of Burns vs Gonzalez

    'For most of the nine rounds that their fight lasted, lightweight titleholder Ricky Burns was utterly outclassed by the largely unknown Jose Gonzalez. It was a shocking scene to see Gonzalez, who was the mandatory challenger for reasons that will remain a mystery -- because it sure had nothing to do with his barren résumé -- toying with Burns.

    Gonzalez, who had never fought anyone of remote consequence and was fighting outside of his Puerto Rican home for the first time, had traveled to the lion's den of Glasgow, Scotland, where Burns is a hero, and he took the hero to school Saturday at Emirates Arena.

    Burns' title was clearly slipping away -- just listen to the crowd grow quieter and quieter, round after round -- when, suddenly, Gonzalez simply quit on his stool after the ninth round.

    The British television commentators, who also had Burns way behind, said it might have been a hand injury. Whatever it was, that's the sort of pain you sign up for when you become a prizefighter. If you want to be a champion, it goes with the territory. Gonzalez (22-1, 17 KOs) couldn't take it, did not have what it takes to be a champion and quit. Poof. Just like that, he gave up the opportunity of a lifetime to win a world title.

    But for most of the nine rounds, Gonzalez befuddled an ineffective Burns (36-2, 11 KOs), who was as lucky to keep his title (in his third defense) as anyone is to hit the lottery. This fight wasn't so much about Burns winning it as it was about Gonzalez losing.

    Burns, the heavy favorite, showed very little and had me thinking he should be thankful he (and former promoter Frank Warren) turned down multiple overtures from fellow titleholder Adrien Broner. I always thought Broner would manhandle Burns. After seeing Burns against Gonzalez, I'm sure of it.

    By the third round, Burns was bleeding from the nose. He was being easily beaten to the punch as Gonzalez showed a really nice variety of punches -- uppercuts, body shots and right hands. He didn't even really use his best punch, the left hook, much.

    Gonzalez had big fifth and sixth rounds, backing Burns into the ropes and hurting him with repeated blows. At this point in the fight, it seemed not really a matter of whether Gonzalez would stop him, just when. But I will give Burns a bit of credit here. He is experienced and has heart and obviously knew he was trailing. He let it all hang out in the seventh round, which will go down as a round of the year candidate.

    They went toe to toe. They were both hurt and they were both in trouble at different times. It was a blistering round, and it clearly took more out of Gonzalez than Burns.

    "He caught me with a few good shots, and I just decided to stand my ground and trade back with him. That's all I could do," Burns said after the fight about Round 7.

    Burns mounted a comeback in the eighth and ninth rounds, his best of the fight, as Gonzalez, perhaps his hand already hurt, looked dead tired and did not do very much. Still, Burns was in a deep hole when the ninth ended. And then, out of nowhere, Gonzalez quit, giving Burns the improbable victory.

    Eddie Hearn, the Matchroom Sport promoter who signed Burns before this fight after he dumped Warren, seemed relieved Burns had pulled this victory out of the fire.

    "Unbelievable courage," he said of Burns' ability to hang in there despite a very tough night.

    Then Hearn said they would be back in Scotland for Burns' next title defense in September -- a title he is very, very lucky to still call his own.'

    Burns lost his next fight after facing Crawford and if not for extreme good luck and corruption would've been 0-2 in his last 2 going into the Crawford fight and should really have been on a 0-4 slump.

    And many feel Burns lost against Kiryl Relikh in his fight directly before Indongo relieved him of his title too.

    Another one of the criticisms the Crawford groupies/Loma haters use to discredit Loma is his opponent's inactivity

    That buzzword ''inactivity'' was and still is to this day is always on their lips whenever they mention Loma's win over Nicholas ''Axe Man'' Walters, who I might add the vast majority of them picked to chop Loma up.


    OK, two can play that game: Going into the Crawford fight Postol had been inactive for 10 months but oddly enough there was no mention of that, not a peep, from the Crawford groupies/Loma haters. I do mean literally not a peep. In fact, I don't even recall hardly anyone at all use the inactivity excuse to try to discredit Crawford's win over him, whereas when Loma beat Walters the chorus of voices singing the inactivity song was deafening and they'll still awfully quick to give you a verse of it whenever Loma's name is brought up.

    Ditto for Crawford vs Gamboa. The later had not only been out a whole years going into that fight, but in addition to that Crawford was much bigger than him and he fought Crawford in his backyard and all 4 of the officials were from the US. Why no mention of inactivity there, eh?

    So we discredit Loma's win over Axe Man because the later had been inactive for 11 months but not Crawfords' over Postol who'd been inactive for 10 months or his win over Gamboa who'd been inactive for 12 months?

    So that's the weight bully/size advantage and inactivity excuses dealt with there.

    Now onto the hit Crawford's resume has taken recently

    Postol got dropped x 2 in his last fight by a 14 fight prospect and was hurt so badly by one of the KDs he was a clean punch from getting KTFO

    Gamboa was stopped by a 23-12-0 guy after facing Crawford and then won a total gift against Loma stoppage victim Jason Sosa

    Felix Diaz ie. the Olympic gold medalist who didn't even deserve his place in the final just lost to a 24-6-1 guy who was coming off back-to-back loses, the later of them against a 32-6-1 journeyman

    And Indongo, who had faced nothing but featherfists his entire career prior to facing Troyanovsky, Crawford, and Prograis, just got knocked silly in a few rounds by Prograis.
     
  6. Serge

    Serge MUH RUSSIA, NOVICHOK, MELDONIUM, DOE Staff Member

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    Another of the metrics the Crawford groupies/Loma detractors cite to discredit Loma is Crawford beating 2 Olympic gold medalists.

    OK so now we're counting amateur achievements as well are we? Well that's an even dumber argument to use to pump up Crawford and diminish Loma than the weight bully/size advantage and inactivity ones lol

    Loma actually IS an Olympic gold medalist x 2 and a 2 x World amateur gold medalist as well.

    Olympic gold medalist x 2 (at featherweight and lightweight which is 132 in the amateurs)
    World Amateur championships gold medalist x 2 (at featherweight and lightweight)
    World Amateur championships silver medalist
    World junior gold medalist (at flyweight)

    Loma beat 2 Olympic gold medalists in one tournament alone and that same tournament that year he also beat a fighter who was a world amateur championships gold medalist, 1 x silver, and 3 x bronze medalist, and a European silver and bronze medalist (Dominic Valentino)

    This content is protected


    The 2 Olympic gold medalists he beat in that tourney are the reigning Olympic gold medalist at light-welterweight from 2016 Fazilddin Gaibnazarov who is currently 4-0 as a pro now. The Uzbek also won silver at the World Amateur championships too.

    This content is protected


    And the reigning Olympic gold medalist at lightweight Robson Conceicao who also won silver and bronze at the world amateur championships and is currently 7-0 as a pro.

    This content is protected


    Loma also beat the number 1 Cuban in that tournament that year who was an Olympic bronze medalist 2 x world amateur championships silver medalist, and 1 x bronze (Yasniel Toledo)

    This content is protected


    And he also beat Jose Ramirez who was the number 1 US amateur and a future WBC light-welterweight champion.

    This content is protected


    That was all in one tournament in (the World Amateur Championships in 2011)

    And they were all naturally bigger than him too lol

    And one of the main reasons all those guys he beat don't have more golds, silvers, and bronze medals in major championships like the Olympics, World amateur championships, Europeans etc to add to their collections is, duh, because of Loma beating them lol

    Back to the Loma being a ''weight bully'' excuse.

    Crawford has typically been rehydrating 15-18 pounds for his fights at 135 and even up at 140, too.

    At 135

    Crawford 149 - Klimov 140

    Crawford 152 - Gamboa 145

    Crawford 153 - Beltran 147

    At 140

    Crawford 155 - Lundy 151

    Crawford 155 - Jean 155

    Crawford 157 - Postol 152

    Crawford 157 - Diaz 161

    I hear Molina weighed more than him but I'm not sure what the ring weights were for that fight. If anyone knows the ring weights and I'll update my post.

    So as you can see Crawford has been the heavier man on fight night for almost all of his fights where the fight night weights have been announced and often by a significant margin too. To put this into perspective, 153 is the highest ever fight night weight for a lightweight I recall hearing of and that's 15lbs heavier than what Loma weighed against Linares the other day at lightweight lol

    Crawford was absolutely killing himself to make lightweight, so much so that it was pretty much the main theme for his HBO 2 Days special. Not so for Loma's HBO 2 Day special, though.

    Like I said, Crawford typically rehydrates 15-18lbs on fight night and he rehydrated 17lbs for Postol even though he'd only officially moved up to that weight class the year before. Crawford actually weighed more for his lowest recorded fight night weight at lightweight than career light-welter Postol did for his fights against Aydin and Matthysse. Crawford was 149 and Postol was 148 for those two fights.
     
  7. Serge

    Serge MUH RUSSIA, NOVICHOK, MELDONIUM, DOE Staff Member

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    Loma said he was 137 for Rigo (Rigo was 130 with clothes on the morning of the fight IIRC) and it was reported he was 138 for the Linares fight, Linares was reputedly 152 but at the very least he had a six pound advantage on Loma but it looked more like a minimum of ten to me, IMO.

    Loma 139 - Sosa 142

    Not sure what Loma and Marriaga weighed for their fight but Marriaga was 135 when he fought Walters down at 126, just 2lbs less than Loma weighed for three of his fights up at 130 and Walters couldn't stop Marriaga despite having 10lbs on him

    Loma 137 - Walters 136

    Loma 137 - Martinez 144


    At 126

    Loma 134 - Koasicha 133

    Loma 138 - Rodriguez 132

    Loma 138½ - Russell 138

    Loma 136 - Salido 147

    Loma 132 - Piriyapinyo 137

    Loma 129 - Ramirez 135


    ^^^ But the Crawford groupies say Loma's the weight bully?! lol


    The maximum amount of weight Loma has hydrated since moving up to 130 is 9lbs, but it's only been 7lbs for 3 of his 5 fights up there, and the weight for the other one wasn't announced.

    Whereas, conversely, Crawford is still rehydrating 17lbs up at 140. So think about that one before you crucify Loma for picking on little Rigo (who most of those who are hammering the nails into Loma's body to the cross picked to whoop Loma).

    And also think about the fact that it was Rigo who called Loma out not the other way round. Rigo who waged a protracted Twitter campaign at Loma, constantly accusing him of ducking him and the good old LDBC (the vast majority of whom predicted that Rigo was going to expose that hype, rearrange the bones in Loma's face and lay him out cold with a lightning fast savage left counter) aided and abetted him in that campaign by tearing into Loma at every opportunity they could get, accusing him of being a coward and ducking the hell out of Rigo.

    They went in on Loma like a pack of wolves for months and months, if not longer. In fact, Barbershop Conversations (LDBC channel) even released a video when the fight was announced saying that the fight would never be happening without the input or ''new media'' aka LDBC and that the LDBC was ''instrumental'' in making it happen. Translation: Their constant calling and pushing for the fight and trashing of Loma for ducking Rigo was a major reason why it was happening. So Loma couldn't win no matter what he did.

    And boy did they switch up their ''Rigo is going expose that hype/easy work/spark Loma out cold/skills pay the bills'' narrative quick sharp after Loma took their boy's soul. It was as if all those words that came out of their mouths beforehand weren't said by them at all lol

    Tell me when has Crawford ever fought an opponent who had 11lbs on him like Salido did on Loma?

    When has he fought one who even had 6 or 7lbs on him?


    Loma just fought the #1 fighter at 135 at his first fight at the weight, no 3 tunes ups to acclimatize to the weight like certain others insist on before they'll dare step foot near one of the top guys at the division.

    Linares had all this over Loma

    Height
    weight
    Reach
    Power
    Way more pro experience

    But in addition to all that

    Linares has always been regarded as someone who is blessed with an abundance of natural talent

    And he has long been regarded as one of the best technical boxers in the game and he also has blazing hand speed

    And to top it off Linares had been training for over a year and a half to face Loma, studying his style and how to fight it and trying to find chinks in his armour and Loma damaged his shoulder in the second round, which he motioned to Papachenko in the corner at the end of that round.

    That's a lot to overcome, especially for a short armed fighter like Loma who fights with a very aggressive style and constantly puts himself in the danger zone. The knock on Linares has always been his durability and weak skin, not his ability or god given talent. Landing punches on his opponents with those sharp technical skills of his and blazing hand speed has never been the issue, hence why he has long been regarded by many as one of the most gifted offensive fighters in the sport.

    The fact that Loma made Linares miss as much as he did and was able to block and pick off as many of his shots on his arms and gloves as he did, given his aggressive style, short arms and Linares' speed, reach and skill level is a testament to Loma's defensive skills, Linares is going to land his fair share against anyone with those fast hands, long reach and those offensive skills of his.

    Loma didn't move up from 126 because he was killing himself to make weight like Crawford did when he moved up from 135 to 140, he moved up because he wanted to fight the best and was daring to be great and he was being denied the opportunity to do so at that weight because he was being ducked by the other champs or fights with them couldn't be made for whatever reason. Ditto for when he moved up from 130 to 135.

    Lee Selby openly admitted he wanted no part of him, GRJ didn't want that work either aka Mr. Gary Russell Jr. I'd beat Lomachenko 99 times out of 100. You know, the guy who claimed him was sick for the fight and that he was exhausted from round 1 even though he didn't look even look particularly tired at the final bell and despite the fact Loma had beat the snot out of him, including going medieval on his ribs all night with a vicious body attack. And GRJ threw more punches in the final rounds than he did in all the others bar one IIRC.

    He also claimed that he hired a S&C coach for the first time in his life for that fight and tried to shift all the blame on them. This was later proven to be a total lie when said S&C coach fired back at Team GRJ the following week, saying he'd been working with them for years which was corroborated in an old article about GRJ from a few years earlier where IIRC the S&C coach was also interviewed.

    Lee Selby admitting he wanted no part of Loma at that time, do I need to post the videos of Tank doing the same when Loma called him out when they were both champs at 130 and the other champs at 126 when Loma was down there?



    When has Crawford ever faced an opponent who had height, weight, reach, power, and way more pro experience over him, let alone one who also as supremely talented as Linares who also had blazing hand speed?

    The answer is never

    /thread

    CST & Serge destroys
     
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  8. Ukansodoff

    Ukansodoff Deontay plz stop ducking Joshua. Thank you. Full Member

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    Damn you 2 have worked harder than Shadow does in his arguments, which is a compliment by the way. I cant really add any views on it cuz i completely agree. Love these long readers. I will add that for some reason my brain has completely wiped Crawford v Burns from my memory, i have no recolection of it what so ever, ive already got it up on youtube which is bad cuz the mrs is on my case for being in the house on such a nice day.

    I have Lomo 1st and Crawford 2nd in my list. I do take resumes in to account but when we are talking pound 4 pounders they can only beat what is put in front of them and there are other contenders for P4P with a better resume than Bud but you can just see the class pouring out of him when he fights and give him better names for a stronger resume and he would handle them with stlye and ease too. Yes i am a fan.But Lomo. Wow he is on a level of his own right now.

    Great thread.
     
  9. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Active Member Full Member

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    What's worse is the people who claim Mikey Garcia is top 3. He hasn't fought anyone. Look, AJ has looked good against his easy opposition, and he has been mega impressive in those fights. But, at least he has some GOOD names as well on there. Who does Mikey Garcia and Terence Crawford have? Absolutely NOBODY on that record.

    I acknowledge the belts. It gives them at least a pass into the top 10. Fair enough. But people can't be claiming that they deserve top 3, that's just silly. Yet we see the likes of Badou Jack and AJ removed from lists. These guys have proven themselves, over and over, twice on a sunday! They have looked good against lesser opponents, but they have also looked good against world class opponents. Performances against average guys should not be given a priority over the names on a fighter's record. They can look like a god in those fights, but if they haven't fought a world class opponent, then you can throw those performances against average guys into the bin.
     
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  10. Tomato(e) Can

    Tomato(e) Can Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao. booted Full Member

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    Vasiliy > Terence
    Lomachenko > Crawford
    The Matrix > Omaha
    Elena Lomachenko > Alindra Person

    "'Nuff said." — The Amazing Spiderman
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  11. uppercut_to_the_body

    uppercut_to_the_body Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lomas resume is much better. But if Bud takes Horns 0 then that will be a big scalp.
     
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  12. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    Like most licence agreement on the net, I didnt read.
    Just click "accept"
     
  13. Odins beard

    Odins beard British Empire will rise again. Full Member

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    Excellent work by @CST80 and @Serge, lets hope the CrawfordManiacs like @ellerbe take note for future discussion.
     
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  14. Liquorice

    Liquorice Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm welling up!!

    I don't think I've seen such poetry since.. Well since the last Loma fight...

    We are not worthy :clap:
     
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  15. ellerbe

    ellerbe Triggering Loma Stans since 2017 Full Member

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    I've done the same thing and went through Loma's resume and tore it apart. It's not hard to do. So no, I'm not taking any "note" for future discussion.
     
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