Herol Graham vs. James Toney at MW

If you think the 1st fight with Sam Peter was a "clear loss" for Toney, I'm not even going to try and reason with you.

 

Anyone else get the feeling there is a lot of talk going on in this thread about fights that these guys haven't actually seen???

 

In fairness you can't watch every fight and have to make a judgement from what they've seen and boxrec. Not everyone scores/sees fights the same way and have preferances, ie aggression, or clean punching, or just to their fave fighter or because they dont rate what a fighter does

 

Hardly a preposterous thing to do. The fight was extremely close, I had it to Toney by a point thanks to his late rounds surge.

 

I think I had it to JT by a couple. However, do you never have those fights which you score to one guy by a couple of points and feel sure that the contest could easily have been scored differently, and do you never have those fights which you score to one guy by a couple of points and feel sure that the fight couldn't be legitimately scored any other way, a "close but clear" win? For me, the 1st Toney-McCallum fight falls into the latter category. JMHO.

 

In fairness, that wasn't what I was meaning. I was meaning that I think guys on the thread are making statements about fights that they have not seen. I don't believe anyone who has seen both Toney-Peter fights could lump them together as "two clear wins" for Peter. The two fights were completely different, and the first one was in my estimation nothing even resembling a "clear" win for Peter.

 

People must remember that Toney, at MW, was more of a pressure fighter than a pure counterpuncher. Of course he already had excellent defence and counterpunching abilities. That's what made him so good there. And despite not having 'flashy' footwork like Roy Jones or Nunn (some say Toney had lazy feet), he still was very effective in cutting off the ring.
In most of his fights at MW, Toney was the man coming forward, you wouldn't see him leaning on the ropes and waiting for his opponents to come in very often - he started doing that more and more after he moved up to SMW and his opponents got bigger and stronger.
Grahams power would not bother Toney. I say Toney would win by late rounds TKO, maybe decision.

 

Thought it was a close fight that could go either way. Bad quality youtube upload.
I'll watch it again and see if my opinion has changed.

 

:rofl Pretty pompous statement.

 

Is it? If I genuinely think that someone who says Toney-Peter 1 was a "clear win" for Peter? For me, that statement positively screams "BOXREC!" And I wouldn't shy away from stating it for fear of being called pompous. Let the accused man return to this thread and explain why he thinks it was a clear win then???

 

Cool, I look forward to it. It was competitive and relatively close, but I think 90% of people would have it to Toney, irrespective of how close the margin of victory was.

 

You said 'these guys'. So to my mind I thought you meant the Mccallum-Toney fight as well. Off to watch it now. Hope its as good as Iremember it. (thats if its still on youtube)

Edit. Bollocks. Uploads are either incomplete or terrible quality.

 

I did mean the 1st McCallum-Toney fight as well, though not to the same extent, as you didn't emphasize the clarity of the victory.

MM-JT 1 really is one of the best fights I've ever seen, the quality level is sky-high.

 

Graham was tricky and a very slick fighter, but he always had trouble when at the very highest level. James Toney back then was P4P #1 or 2 in the world, and had serious power at middleweight, as well as being an aggressive come forward fighter. Just as importantly, he proved himself in many world class fights. IMO Graham would win early rounds but eventually James catches up with him and stops him late.