Herol Graham vs Steve Collins 160lbs primes

Good fight. I think I like Collins and his strength/workrate over Herol's skill and defensive ability. Then again, I would be surprised if Herol found a way to win more rounds. He was a difficult guy to fight.

 

Graham all day. Collins way too basic. He would put up a good fight (as always), but would lose on points.

 

Graham should win by decision.
Long as he doesn't get too over confident and get caught.

 

Graham would box him silly in a one sided fight.
If Mccallum can't knock Graham out Collins isn't even coming close.
Everybody is acting like Collins was some type of Julian Jackson type puncher when he was not.
Hell a shot Kalambay beat Collins.

 

Collins was better at 168 he wasn't quite the rugged ultra aggressive fighter at 160 compared to 168.

Graham came within 1 point of beating a prime McCallum I think Graham's peak level at 160 is considerably higher than Collins and he should win a pretty comprehensive decision.

 

Nothing i can add to what has aready been said. Herol would win,i have do doubt whatsoever

 

Graham UD.

 

I know Herol pushed Mccallum to the wire and that fight should really have been a draw but I go against the consensus here.

Graham has in my opinion become so overrated over the years. This is a man who turned pro in 1978 by late 1986 the British boxing media starved as they were at the time of world class winners were proclaiming Graham the world's number 1 middleweight contender .

By the time he fought relatively unknown Sumbu Kalambay he was 38-0. Yet study his record. Apart from a 1984 win over also ran Lindell Holmes and a late stoppage over a aged Kalule all you have is domestic British opposition to account for 9 years as a pro.

He was also bullied into adopting a ludicrous swashbuckling slugger style and the nickname ' bomber' when at heart his instincts were as a defensive boxer

Like Bruno during the same time period he was overprotected.

He lost the Kalambay fight precisely for this reason. Although it was closely fought for 10 rounds.At the time it seemed a huge upset. In reality it was a welcome to world level and a reality check

By the time the Mccallum fight happened for Herol... Kalambay had gone on to be a very accomplished world champion. Herol fought very evenly with Mccallum and proved he belonged at that level. By than he was nearly 30.

The Jackson fight where he was outworking Jackson for 3 round is presented as 'moments from victory' and ' all he had to do was ' finish the round'. The reality is Jackson set him up and had a history of slow starts against faster foes who were invariably lured into a trap. He did it against Norris,Graham and Cardamone to name but a few . An older Graham was ahead against Kalambay the 2nd time..... and Charles Brewer.... scoring 2 knockdown in each bout but lost down the stretch. In all his defeats his insistence on fighting with his hands down at his knees cost him when his defence was exposed at world level.

Do I think with the right management and guidance he could have beaten and won all the fights he lost? Absolutely.

Herol ruled a relatively weak domestic British landscape in the middleweight division throughout the 1980's.Men like Gumbs,Kaylor,Thomas as opposed to a Sibson. By 1989.Eubank,Watson and Benn emerged. Watson and Benn didnt really wish to fight Herol unless they had to under duress.Eubank had no interest in fighting Graham in a pro contest. Even there there is a revealing backdrop

Herol in training camp outboxed Eubank over several days of sparring close to 40 rounds in 1989 but than was knocked out by Eubank with one stray punch.

Let me be clear. I feel if Graham had like Collins,Benn and Eubank gone to America to improve he could've been something very very special.As it is he has gone down rightfully as a master boxer who pushed some of the very best middleweight very close but " best boxer to never win a world title'? Definitively no in the classic era ( pre WBO).

In Steve Collins we have a man who could not be wrestled around. Graham had wrestled Mccallum to the floor. Thrown Julian Jackson around like a rag doll. Collins though had shown superior physical strength against Eubank and Benn. Benn in particular he punished like a school headmaster.

Collins could really box earlier in his career. He gave Mccallum a fight but was clearly beaten imo 8 rounds to 4 he wasn't close to being on even terms like Herol was with Mccallum . Collins also pushed Reggie Johnson hard. In those 2 fights he showed a lot of boxing ability.

Later in Britain he adopted his slugging style but all the time he could box too when needed.

I think Collins desire and work rate would make Graham uncomfortable from the get go. He'd expose Grahams hands down style by catching him with noteworthy rights early. Few boxers had Steve's relentless will to win.I think mixing his 2 styles he wins a very very narrow points victory mostly brawling but also part boxing.

 

This is how I see it too,Fergy. I've met Herol a couple of times - nice guy.

 

I have no doubt that however well Graham fights, and however many rounds he dominates, he would find a way of losing.

 

This strikes me as an absolutely horrible matchup for Collins. I can't envision how he could possibly win it.

He doesn't have the power to hurt Graham in a fight-changing way. He's not an accurate counterpuncher who can hurt Graham with perfectly placed blows or take advantage of Graham's occasional sloppiness. Graham has the strength to throw him off if Collins tries to maul him (remember that he chucked a light heavyweight over his head once upon a time). And Collins certainly doesn't have the handspeed or footspeed to keep up with Graham.

Graham runs circles around him and wins something like 8-2, 9-3. Collins had a way of making fights closer than they should have been but he just seems totally ill-equipped for someone like Graham. Then again, he did run another speedy southpaw in Reggie Johnson quite close. Johnson was more of a boxer-puncher than a pure mover, though.

 

He wasn't outworking him, he was schooling him. and he didn't loose the second Kalambay fight "down the stretch", he was robbed.

 

Graham schools him.

 

That's certainly your opinion.
I disagree. Much of his work versus Jackson was mauling and tricks. He evidently wasn't ' schooling him' enough as he ended up unconscious having shown terrible lack of judgement rushing into a trap.

I rewatched the second Kalambay fight. He scored 2 flash knockdowns and faded down the stretch. I saw no robbery. You feel different.

It's ok to have different opinions.