High Def Kermit Jump Vid - what do you see?

I will dude. Sorry. Been a lil busy writing. I'll hit them up later, man.

 

Cool. I'll check them out when you do. Can't wait up for them though. I need some Z's. Thanks in advance.

PS- Divac, looks like you'll get some answers one way or the other.

 

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Newsflash.........dont stay up waiting, the comment I talked about was said months ago. No one refuted them because the NSAC in this case was telling the truth.

End of story. Montoya was speaking out of his arse with the wish that this forum is made up of uninformed assholes and he was here to spew his made up stories and lies.

FINITO!

 

Get answers?:huh

I dont need answers from Montoya.
What happened between he and I was that I called him out on his assertion in this thread (which I never heard anywhere else) that Nevada did not provide gauze and tape.
Montoya thought that it was Arum who had stated that Nevada provided gauze and tape, but the reality was that Arum only had said that after the head of the NSAC had come out public stating it.

When I confronted Montoya with these facts, all he could say was that he could'nt make his sources public......which makes absolutley no sense because this is'nt an issue that is of opinion......Either the NSAC provided gauze and tape to fighters in their jurisdiction or it does'nt.
There is'nt any reason at all why anyone who knew that Nevada does'nt provide gauze and tape would'nt come out public with it.

Use your brain and think......their are thousands of fighters and trainers that have worked in Nevada, and not one has refuted what they said.....which only means one thing.......What they said was fact.

 

That's exactly how I feel about the fight. But at this point, I don't think it is fair to Kermit Cintron for a boxing forum like this to be unfairly swayed especially by a former manager/trainer with obviously an axe to grind.

Let me be clear about that. I am not passing judgment on anybody. Whatever happened between people is their business, whose was the bigger fault only they know, and I am not interested how it will be resolved.

But I'd like to keep a balanced view on things. I don't see anyway how Gabe Montoya would benefit by trying to clear the air about his interviews with Kermit.

 

stupid cocksucker jumped out the damn ring

 

Come on. You re coming off as some kind of self appointed crusader to save Margo's honor. The dude got caught cheating. Period. Deal with it. Hasn't it occurred to you that the guy may have info or sources of info that you don't?

On a lighter note....

Can u get me those quotes? I haven't seen them and can seem to find them by google.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't conditioner101 say they used their own materials when he was with cintron?

 

Before I get started, there are a few gray area things i won't go into. Suffice it to say, my "investigation" into this and leads coming off this case that have led me other places is ongoing and day to day. So in places, I may say "I can;t go further" or something like that. Not a cop out. Just working on something I won't divulge until done. I'll try and be thorough but inevitably, there will be some "read between the lines moments" in here.

Ok. So I was at the hearing where Margarito/Capetillo had their licenses revoked. I got to see and touch the hand wrap insert as well as get a demonstration of how the hands were wrapped and the insert placed inside. There used to be a report on Maxboxing by me on the hearing but we changed servers and the story has been lost. I have since found it in my emails so if you want it PM me.

The handwraps were basically made to hide the inserts. The insert was about the size of a long business card. And about as stiff. It was not the rock or steel people make it out to be. It looked like a dirty, folded or ironed piece of old gauze. The knuckle pad was wrapped around it so unless you really got in there to inspect it, you wouldn't see it.

Do I think Tony knew? I'm not sure. I have yet to do my own test of getting wrapped like that. I watch a lot of guys get their hands wrapped from amateurs to pros. They are all different in terms of paying attention and so forth. I don't think we will ever know if Tony knew or if he did it before.

Capetillo, from many accounts I have gotten, (people close to the camp or in it who I will not name as they have requested that), Capetillo was both father and tormentor to Tony throughout their career. He believes in a iron handed type of love. During the Mosley camp, Tony came in very overweight, spent camp dropping that weight, incurring at least one reported injury (a bulging disk) and despite Capetillo's efforts to force Margarito to spar, he missed a lot of training due to that.

So could he have acted on his own, thinking that Tony needed some edge? Yes its possible. Would he without Tony's knowledge? I'm not sure I know both well enough to answer that. Anything I say here would be a guess or a theory. I do think its possible for Tony to not know based on how the wraps were made.

Did Capetillo or Tony use them before? Hard to say. I think the way this camp went coupled with suspicion (not from his camp, just a guy I've been talking to) that Mosley might be using something going into their bout, set the table for the cheating. To me, this is an educated theoryI find it hard to believe that for all 21 KOs Capetillo and Tony had together, each commission would miss this. You can argue they can be bought, and I believe they can be without question, but I find it rough to believe a promoter/manager/ trainer would risk money to insure a guy could cheat every time. But this is boxing. Anything is possible.

Is there a conspiracy to get Tony? I don't think so. Not as far as someone concocted the wraps to discredit him. They were there. Whether he knew or not is kind of irrelevant.

As for Nevada's claim vs. mine, well, I'm in a grey area there. I have the OK to name these guys but not here in a message board to appease an angry poster. Like I said, I am working on a larger piece, possibly book size, that this kind of pertains to. Right now, I'd rather follow up on the lead and go from there.

I can say this: the trainers were in smaller casino shows in Vegas and non title fights. Not sure if you know this but the NSAC does not drug test every fighter on a card. Only half for the most part including the main event which is guaranteed to be tested. So I am wondering, and have yet to fins out if the hand wrap policy is the same. Will know soon. And no its not as easy to get answers as you'd think.

And yeah, I think anyone, from the NSAC commissioner to fighters to trainer to anyone else in boxing i can think of generally will say anything to cover their ass. So no, it is not out of the realm is possibility that the "we all get handwraps" story in NV could be bull****.

Hope this answered at least some of your questions.

 

Thanks. Good stuff. Thanks for the insights. I would like to read the article. I'll pm you for it.

 

Montoya is a character.......:rofl:rofl:roflhe's fishing at lower end club fights and gettting quotes there that the commision does not provide gauze and tape to them.....
....btw Montoya, that I can believe. For a lower end club fight, I could believe that the commision would send to these clubs unqualified inspectors who would instruct the fighters to bring their own gauze and tape.

With these commisions, things dont get done right in big fight scenarios, I can only imagine the shenanigans and money being transfered to buy people off in these lower end club fights.......

Bit of advice Montoya, ask fighters and trainers about this subject who have actually fought on name cards.
Ask Miguel Cotto for Christ sake if for the Margarito fight he was provided gauze and tape, or they wrapped with their own.
The answer is right there with Miguel Cotto. If he wrapped with commision materials, you can bet Margarito did as well.
......but know, you are out there fishing with characters from backyard makeshift boxing matches.



.....and as for the Margarito wraps Montoya, why do you paint a picture of Margarito hiding an insert?
You say Margarito's hands were wrapped to hide the insert?
I'm insinuating you're talking about the knucklepad, who btw every fighter puts one on top of their knuckle between layers of gauze.
.....yet you're depicting it as if Margarito wrapped specifically to hide the insert.


.......and did I hear you right, you are saying that you felt the business card size knucklepad and found it to be as hard as a business card?????????

What happened to the hard plaster the CSAC claims was discovered on the knucklepad????


Btw, a friend of mine at work once worked at a gym where fighters used to train.......I know this to be true because he knows I'm a big boxing fan, and so he brought an album he had depicting him with several fighters at the gym in different pictures......fighters like Pipino Cuevas, Roger Mayweather, Azumah Nelson, and alot of the Latin fighters that made their base at the gym like Rene Arredondo.

This friend had mentioned years previously that he owned a handwrapped from one of Rene Arredondo's fights.......recently I asked him if the wraps felt cotton soft or do they now feel hard after Rene had used them and then after all these years.
He actually told me they were not soft like someone had freshly wrapped, but that they were almost stiff like a cardboard.

......you mentioning Montoya that the knucklepads felt as stiff as a business card really got me thinking to what my friend said about how Arredondo's wraps felt.

I had mentioned something similar in a thread before.
Watch your car and hang dry the cloth you use to wash the car.......the cloth will stiffen.

Capetillo had claimed that he had inserted a used knucklepad on Margarito, and sweat contains salt deposits that would make a material stiffen when dried.

 

Conditioner did say that, and I asked him has he seen fighters get wrapped there recently as the Margarito-Cotto fight took place in 2007 and the protocol may have changed since then......

.......anyways here's a link that in the article states the difference in protocol between Nevada and California......

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/bygeorge/item_EvwnfOkXynsKepKqWr2EMJ

 

I have not witnessesed any big fight hand wrapping.

 

Only Kermit knows for sure, but it looked like he jumped out of that ring to me. It was weird that he said the wind was knocked out of him even though he grabbed his head and back and never his stomach after he fell/jumped out of the ring. It's also not a good look that he never showed any willlingness to continue until after they began putting him on the stretcher.

 

Not club show guys. Two trainers who have worked with quite a few world champions. The trainers in question work at the gym I work out of now. Fortune's on Sunset.

Look, man, if you're all over me about Tony and me thinking he's guilty, you should read my articles on the subject first. All I get is hate mail from Cotto fans saying dude cheated.

You're bringing your own thing in to this. Have the discussion and then make assumption or conclusions.

As for the knuckle pad, I'm not making it into anything.

The device was as such : knuckle pad, which is gauze wrapped to make a kind of pillow that goes over the knuckles. Inside that pillow was a wet, old looking piece of folded gauze apparently smeared with something that had tow elements of plaster of paris. Ok? The reason they took Tony's license away at the hearing was that a wet, foreign substance was enough to break the rules.

The thing was hidden. That isn't the question anymore. It's simply a fact.

The question is or are 1) Did Tony know and 2) Is it possible NOT to know?

That's pretty much it.