Is a gogoplata considered a low percentage high level move? [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqKYeaUkK0o&feature=player_embedded[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2WhBIS0kU&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
Do you get all your info on BJJ from wikipedia? :rofl:rofl You roll with blackbelts and brown belts, ok, who?? That is exactly what I said in my earlier post! You try to argue that a purple belt is not advanced, and your own evidence suggest otherwise! TRY AGAIN!!!:rofl:rofl
It doesn't because you say it doesn't? nice argument there!!! :rofl try again, this time with something other than "It doesn't because I say so." What are you talking about? People lose fights to things other than submissions. You ahve no clue what it is you are even arguing. You obviously can't understand the difference between someone with a black belt and the moves the black belt uses. Come back when you get a clue about what it is you're arguing. Except Palhares and Aoki don't use high level moves as frequently as mayweather and toney use their highlevel moves. TRY AGAIN. Aoki and Palhares are exceptions based on the fact that they don't use their high level bjj on as many quality opponents compared to toney and mayweather who use their high level boxing on quality opponents. They don't use their high level bjj with the same frequency as mayweather and toney use their high level boxing. The difference between those 4 fightes is tremendous. Try again, this time with an ounce of sense.
:rofl:rofl Spine locks are ILLEGAL. Omoplata, gogplata, toeholds, ankle locks and americanas are all high level submissions. So you're left with 6 submissions and those 6 are the most commons while the others are rareley if ever used. Try again.
Not just submissions there are other moves as well. I won't list them all. Gogaplata, omaplata, spine locks(illegal), toe holds, heel hooks, spiderguard, x guard,rubber guard, turtle guard, butterfly guard and just about every single sweep, just to name a few :rofl:rofl Lesner Mir 2, Edgar Pen 1&2, GSP PEN 1&2 completely shut down your argument here.
WHy on earth would I tell you peoples names that you have never heard of? :rofl A classic example of someone completely ignoring the entire paragraph and focusing on only 1 thing. See what that says? a purple belt is INTERMEDIATE! intermediate does not = ADVANCED, TRY AGAIN. They hold formidable knowledge, thats great, but they are still INTERMEDIATE. They are qualified to teach people LOWER THAN THEM, which means they teach beginners. Once again not evidence they are ADVANCED. In other martials people with purple belts in bjj would be considered black belts, but thats in OTHER MARTIAL ARTS. Try again. Intermediate does not = ADVANCED. Learn to read :rofl:rofl:rofl
A Purple Belt is the beginning of Advanced in the sense that it is the level in which you really start teaching other students who are white/blue belts and depending on your level within the purple belt range, other purple belts. But, I suppose you'd actually have to train in BJJ to understand that and not take wikipedia for your source of how BJJ works.
Hey! Me too! So, you already know that and wouldn't need something like wikipedia to know exactly what I meant and blow it entirely out of proportion based on what one might read on wikipedia when one types in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Cause, well...you train in BJJ, you know. Right?
Its called giving a source for your information. I know that, but the people I am talking to might not know that. It's always a good practice to back up ones assertions with sources and evidence, and I did not blow it out of proportion. Purple belt does not = advanced. Its that simple.
Yes, it is that simple. And luckily, I didn't say purple belt = advanced. I said it was the beginning of advanced. Becase what do you have to do to get a black belt, generally speaking? (Of course, it does vary from instructor to instructor) You not only have to have shown proficiency in executing all the desired techniques but one must also be able to explain the reasoning behind why the mechanics of said techniques work and in turn teach them to other students. That is advanced. And when does one typically start doing all that advanced sort of stuff? Purple belt.
The problem seems to be how you define something as "high level" and "basic". As has been pointed out many BJJ techniques you consider "basic" can obviously be used in a highly skilled manner. You could IMHO argue that boxing itself is a "basic" sport since as far as striking goes many of the high risk techniques are illegal, no spinning backfists, axe kicks etc. To me that seems very much like BJJ minus what you'd call "high level" subs, boxers actually have a very limated number of high percentage attacks to use with the setup and timing acounting for most of the skill.
It's not hard. A basic move is just that, a basic move, an advanced move is just that, an advanced move. Furthermore, you can use a basic move in a "highly skilled" manner, but, no matter how fast and hard you throw a jab, its always going to be just a jab. No. There are plenty of high level techniques. Look at roy jones jr, james toney and floyd mayweather. They use high level techniques, they also use them against quality opponents and they use them consistently and frequently, their entire style is built around it. Now, tell me who the roy jones jr, james toney and floyd mwathers of bjj in mma are?
Demian Maia Robert Drysdale Ronaldo de Souza Roger Gracie Fabricio Werdum ........and those are just the guys competiting in MMA. Want to broaden the spectrum to just BJJ practicioners?
The flaw in your arguement seems to be this to me... For boxing you consider footwork, timing, body movement, setup etc to be "high level techniques" but you don't consider timing, misdirection, positoning etc to be in BJJ, all your interested in is a few low percentage submissions that fighters might not be taught until they've been training for awhile. Basically your view of BJJ seems to be MUCH more simplistic than your view of boxing. If the only thing we can judge the "level" of BJJ by is the actual subs at the end then surely all we can judge boxing by is jab, uppercut, hook etc. As I said I think boxing is actually the more "basic" of the two sports in terms of the actual fight ending techniques. By removing kicks, knees, elbows and some punches the actual number of different attacks is very limated indeed. Thats not to say the sport isnt highly skilled but the skill is in timing, combinations, movement etc. BJJ by comparison is much less limated, almost any submission is fair game and thats resulted in a very large number of fight ending holds being devolped. However that doesnt mean that setting up the "basic" moves well isnt highly skillful, the same way a kickboxer can learn to use an axe kick yet can still show great skill in setting up an solid left straight. Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost werent really noted for using the range of attacks that say Andy Hug was, does that mean that their punches and high/mid/low kicks were "basic" techniques while only Hugs spinning kicks can be considered "high level"? So yeah the RNC, armbar, triangle etc will always remain the best fight ending techniques in BJJ the same way the uppercut, hook, straight will remain the fight ending techniques in boxing, doesnt mean there can't be a ton of skill behind either of them.
