Higher atg: jones or hoya

Jones by far. Much more talented, dominating his contemporaries for years until age caught up with him. Oscar was good, but he struggled to win/lose against the best of his peers. You could argue though for sure that he fought a tougher class of people.

 

Jones dominant run without LOSING ROUNDS for years at a time, and without ever really learning how to box, honestly, shows that he is a much greater natural fighter than Oscar. He made his competition look like garbage, and NOBODY makes Bernard Hopkins, Jorge Castro, James Tony, Malinga, and Sosa look completely helpless like he did. One of a kind talent. Not the greatest technical skills, but in his prime NO ONE BEATS him.

If you want to see how a middleweight version of Floyd would do against him, watch his fight with Tony and imagine better footwork.

so many times he would not hurt opponents because he didn't feel like it or didn't want to, just cruising through the fights at 50%. He never had to dig deep. He deserves more credit than he gets. i wish he would have retired after Ruiz or Tarver I, and we would all be (mistakenly, of course) talking about Jones-Ali or Jones-Lewis.

 

Oscar has too any non-dominant performance, so close with quartey, so close with whitaker, so close with trinidad, mosley both times, so close with vargas but got the ko, so close with pac ... oh wait, he got dominated there.

If he had a real prime, it was 9 rounds against trinidad and the first mosley fight, and unfortuantely those efforts are in the L column.

 

True, but on the whole part, DLH's comp. with "Ruelas, Hernandez, Chavez, Gonzalez, Whitaker, Rivera, Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, Gatti, Castillejo, Vargas, Campas, B-Hops, Rico Mayo, Mayrunner & Packy" are fighters way more respected P-4-P compared to Roy Jones' average list of opponents............. WTF?
:bbb
In many folks' eyeballs, nobody believes DLH lost to Tito in '99 or Mosley in '03... Them decisions were butt-shaftings.....
:deal
Wake up to the "Jones" nut grabbers looking for a feel....:hi:

MR.BILL:hat

 

Anyone can do this sort of **** Bill.

Oscar De La Hoya's claim to fame is:


He beats James Leija and Genero Hernandez.....2 smaller guys coming up in weight....

Hoya stops Ruelas in 2....a fighter with a glass chin and no balance...and stops an old and ringworn Chavez on a pre existing cut....:-(


He gets gifts against an Ike Quartey who hadn't fought in a year and a half and an old and creaky Pernell Whitaker...:fire

He bitches away the last rounds against Tito Trinidad for his first "L"...:blurp

Gets schooled a Mosley jumping up 2 divisions...:deal

Beats Fernando Vargas who had already been ruined by Trinidad...:hi:

Tries to do a Ray Leonard but gets stopped by a single bodyshot by Hopkins who's no puncher....

Releases a terrible pop single that gets a gift Latin Grammy...:guitar

Gets photographed dressed in ladies lingere....:gayfight

Then gets destroyed by a waay smaller Manny Pac coming up in weight...:ko

....etc,etc.

Now I don't really believe this **** but you doing the same to a fighter of Jones's calibre and accomplishments is equally as petty, unfair and easy to do.

 

Yes, but only to a point......... I never said DLH didn't feast on a few smaller dude's forced to move up... He did, and HBO bought it, too.... BUT! My point is, DLH whether the opponent was smaller, the same or bigger, were overall better fighters / opponents compared to what Jones faced......


As for DLH getting waxed by Packy in 2008, well, do the math... I have always been against an aging warrior dropping down in weight for a big fight after settling in higher up..... DLH had been a 154 pounder since 2001.... DLH was foolish to go down to 144 in 2008 against a peaked champion..... BIG MISTAKE!!

MR.BILL

 

Well didn't Jones drop even more weight to go back down to Lt Heavy after he beat Ruiz and he hasn't been worth a piece of **** since,yet a lot of people still mark him hard on many of those subsequent losses and his standing has been severely affected by this.

Personally I think this shouldn't count against Jones when evaluating how good he was because prime Jones was probably literally a 5 x better fighter than the one who got whipped by Calzaghe or beaten by Hopkins.

 

Cool with me........:yep

I feel DLH deserved a draw in '07 against Mayrunner, and DLH's loss to Packy should be excluded since he was over-the-hill and drained in 2008...
:deal

Anyone who judges either Jones or DLH based on their last fight are idiots and need a straight-jacket......
:shock:

MR.BILL:hat

 

"He beat me. The man beat me fair and square. You know, I can't say...cause this or cause that. Roy beat me that night fair and square...I have to give him his props."

-James Toney

 

Spare me... That's Toney "trying" to put forth class in defeat...... You can clearly see from the press conference pics, in which Toney was pegged at 206 pounds while standing next to a trim Roy Jones basically tells the story from there onward.... Toney made his weight of 168 and immediately walked away and hit the Gatorade bottle hardcore... He was dead at the weigh-in for Jones in '94......

MR.BILL:hat

 

That's Toney giving credit where credit is due.

 

It's about dominance and showing how good you are, thats what a win is, proof of how good you are. Winning every round against an opponent is always better than 50% of fans thinking you lost the fight. Taylor winning a controversal decision over a 39yo Hopkins isn't as good as Jones dominating the 28yo Hopkins despite suffering a broken hand. Like wise winning every round against Toney is better as a win than a controversal decision over Whitaker.

If it was just about 'who you faced' and its okay if you lose some as long as you win some, Ross Purrity would make the HW ATG list.

Still this isn't the only argument, I'd contend Jones competition is as good as Oscar's anyway, it just looked worse because they were facing Jones and the likes of Tarver, Hill, R Johnson, McCallum were never glamourous opponents, they were still P4P or borderline P4P at some stage. Jones beat a total of 19 world champions of the past/current/future and numerous more ring ranked opponents

 

Again, that's Toney of '94 being classy, in my opinion..... Toney was groomed and mature with trainer Bill Miller and manager Jackie Kallen...... Toney, like Tyson before, became a victim of circumstances when he fired the real team that made him a star........ Fame can be a real *****..... BUT!! While Toney went through a period of hot & cold after 1994, overall he came back to ensure his greatness and legacy....... Tyson became "Iffy" after the firing of Rooney and Cayton....

James Toney IS an ATG fighter for the books............ Christ, even Stevie Wonder can see that.....

However, **** IT!!!!! All three mothers (DLH, Toney & Jones) will be inducted into the IBHOF sooner or later..... WORD!
bbb:hi::good:yep

SR.BILL:hat

 

I think this is a pretty reductive way of looking at things, tbh. Chavez may have been near the top of the rankings, but why would a technicality like that make you disregard the fact that you've seen Chavez fight at 135 in the mid-late 80s, and therefore know that he is (a) not close to that fighter anymore, and (b) far above his best weight?

Rigidly adhering to something like rankings obscures the truth, and knowing that truth is kind of the whole point of being the type of boxing fan who watches fights a lot, does a lot of research, and gains a good understanding of the sport. Anyone who has a back copy of The Ring can flick back and see Chavez near the top of the rankings at that time, even if they don't know anything about the man or his career. Is that really how we should be assessing the quality of an opponent, by glancing at a magazine or looking into alphabelt organization rankings (which have often been ludicrous anyway), rather than using our own knowledge and reasoning?

I say no, no, and no again. To even suggest that Chavez 1 was a better win than outboxing a peak Felix Trinidad purely because Chavez will rank higher ATG than Tito is utterly bogus IMO. If peak Tito fought mid 90s Chavez at 147, JCC would've been going home in a bodybag. We know this. Refusing to consider quality of opposition when ranking wins? Mental IMO.