Higher P4P: Joe Frazier or Erik Morales

I reckon you could defo make the case for Morales, as you just did. Truly great fighter, no debate.

 

Disagree with both these points, going from 122-130lbs while weight draining to be the bigger man is not as impressive as taking on any and everyone from 175-Infinity

Resume lets see:

Ali - Pacquaio - Ali's a better boxer, both forces of nature, Ali was a bit past prime, Pac was in his first fight at 130lbs.

Advantage Frazier

Foreman-MAB - Morales acquited himself better than the smaller MAB (morales typically added 10lbs++ of water weight after weigh in, MAB did not). I had MAB winning all 3 bouts, the first was a robbery. Frazier got destroyed by Foreman

Advantage Morales

Jimmy Ellis - Junior Jones - Both had put quality wins together, Ellis had beat some of the best like Patterson, Leotis Martin, Bonavena and Quarry. Jones has the big Barrera won, I thought MAB won the rematch though. Jones was also coming off a loss to MkKinney when Morales faced him

Advantage Frazier

Quarry/Foster - Chavez/Old Zaragoza/Hernadez/Ayala - Quarry and Foster seemed better boxers than these beating Patterson/SHavers/Lyle/Tiger etc between them, but these wins are quite close in quality

Advantage - About Equal

Also bare in mind Morales missed allot of names in those weight classes, he missed top titlists like Bungu/Vasquez from 122, he missed Hamed/Marquez/Harrison from 126, Casamayor and Freitas wanted him at 130 and he only moved up when the division was empty, the forementioned were willing to move down to make fights with him too when they got to 135. Frazier fought all the top names, and he could have been champion for far longer if he avoided Foreman and didnt rematch Ali. Morales didnt truly step up until he faced MAB in 2000

Missing Top Names - Advantage Frazier

 

I reckon the Pacquiao win will stand the test of time personally.

 

Frazier should be ranked higher.

 

Definitely Frazier.

 

Probably because Frazier was champion in the golden age of HW fighters and beat the GOAT Heavyweight and gave him 2 good fights in 2 losing efforts. His only losses come against Top 10 HW - 1 being a terrible style disadvantage and the other being a top 10 fighter of all time.

 

I don't think it's a solid lock either way, the only way you could swing it to an undisputed status is if you give heavy credit to Morales' dodgy decisions. I don't see it, you can argue for either man.

 

Frazier was just a higher level of fighter, I can tell that when I watch the both of them fight. I could never see Morales beating a fighter the caliber of Ali or turning in a performance like the one Frazier did.

As far as their resumes go, Frazier has:

Ali (a far better win than Morales ever had)
Bonavena X2
Quarry X2
Foster
Ellis X2
Mathis
Machen
Jones
Bugner

Morales had:

Pacquiao
Barrera
Ayala
McCullough
Jones
Zaragoza
Chavez
Hernandez
Kelley

Pretty close, but again I could never see Morales beating a fighter the caliber of Ali, and I consider Frazier the better, more effective fighter in his prime.

 

1. The point is Fraziers weight class spans 100lbs+, he took on bigger men, Morales weight classes spanned 8 measley pounds and he took on smaller men, maybe bar Diaz and you see Morales as doing more because if you have 2 shits you move down 2 divisions?

2. I mentioned Ali was past prime, I simply mentioned Ali is better than Pac P4P, most would agree, Pac was in his first fight at 130lbs that is a big factor in the fight

3. The bottom line many fights were missed in Morales career, there's no reason a Marquez fight couldnt have come off other than he was a dangerous fight for Morales

4. They are titlists who picked up vacant belts too, not real world champions, look at Chi/Chavez/Hernadez who all won vacant belts just like Ellis and tell me the best win between then - which is it Michael Brodie? Does it trump a Patterson win? I think f*cking not!!!

 

Its got to be Morales P4P.

He was one of the most exciting fighters i have ever seen, he jumped divisions and was still exciting. A shot Morales was still able to give you mini-classics like the 3 fights with Pac (he was shot in the second and third "mini-Hagler-Hearns" fights) and Diaz. Every fight was a war and he always came out on top (prior to Barrera and until the second fight with Barrera).

Frazier was a great Heavyweight.

 

i rank frazier higher than morales.
frazier wasn't stopped by men his size like morales did and did well against many of the bigger than him by margins morales never had to face. so despite neither is in my top 10 frazier higher.