Highest Jack Johnson Rating?

I rate him # 4, ahead of holmes and dempsey. my numbers 9 and 10.

 

Johnson was a giant in his day as was Dempsey but in modern times we compare everyone with Champions Louis and Marciano, Ali and Frazier for fighting there # 1 contenders and there were not too many champions prior to Louis that had a shining example. I rate Johnson high but he did not fight black challengers once he was Champ. Was it because there was not BIG money in it

 

From the films of I've seen of Johnson, he was a defensive master and great puncher. Even when he lost to Willard, he looked impressive in the early rounds. Would have decisioned both Holmes and Dempsey, IMO.

 

Ofcourse. I have him No.3, and top20 pound for pound. Bert Sugar rates him No.10 pound for pound if I'm not mistaken.

Eddie Futch rates him top3 also.

There is no shortage of people, particularly experts, who rate Johnson ahead of Holmes and Dempsey.

 

Have you looked at his colour title reign? back then that was the REAL title reign, not the joke of linear white mans title reign.


Jack johnsons coloured title reign was more impressive than almost every linear heavyweight champions title reign in heavyweight history

jack johnson was a fat 38 year old far past his prime man and he still beat the hell out of willard for 20 rounds. your bias wreacks.



Jeffries ducked jack johnson blatantly in 1904, gave tomato can jack munroe a shot instead then retired.

 

There is nothing wrong with rating Jack Johnson number 1 in the World ever. I dont rate him there personally, but he is absolutely dominant on film against his opponents. His dominant coloured reign over the likes of Langford, Mcvey and Jeanette established him as the best coloured fighter in the world. If you rate him over Jeffries and many do, and he did win their fight, He was the number 1 fighter in the world for as long as virtually anyone and he was completely dominant. His victory over Ryan is ridiculed but Ryan was the best fighter in the world at the time. In fact, after he won the title, there was no white fighter who even looked close to capable to beating him. That is dominance. The closest was an old jeffries who was not good enough. Even coloured fighters could not really touch him The three best coloured fighters that can raise arguments to challenge him, had already been bested and dominated by Johnson. Johnson was as dominant as any champion has ever been. When he finally was beaten, it was after he dominated a young and huge fighter but ran out of puff. In all fairness, it is doubtful that Willard could have repeated the feat in a rematch and thus none ever happened. Like other greats like Holmes and Foreman, Johnson continued to fight late in his career and at old age, he was still able to use his class to outbox many great fighters and stay close to world class despite losing his speed reflexes etc. IMO, that is the mark of an ATG. The only real question mark on Johnson is his chin, particularly with the Choynski loss, but if you can forgive that as a one off, and you like certain other aspects of his career, there is nothing too wrong with rating Johnson number one. There are not many fighters at all who could lay that claim, imo.

 

Wasn't aware Futch rated Jack so high ,I have him way up to no1 ! behind Ali.

 

I actualy have the man at number 3 HW

 

He was dominant and on top of the division for a long period of time, but at the same time, he ducked more challengers than any other champion in history: unlike Holmes, his potential title challengers only lost to each other. Imagine Quarry being champ in the 70's, with Ali, Foreman and Frazier only losing to each other but Quarry holds a win over all of them when they had a handful of pro fights. How high would you rate him?

I consider that, and the fact that most of his opponents were a lot of smaller than him a big black mark on his legacy, and as such i'd rank Holmes higher. Not sure about Dempsey.

 

He'd already beaten every challenger bar Wills, some he beat multiple times. Not to mention he beat them with relative comfort. Langford, the best challenger he dominated. And Langford had 40+ fights

Johnson may have been a much more active champion if he wasn't being persecuted by the authorities. Don't compare Quarry to Johnson, hes clearly a league below

 

During his title reign his opponents were smaller, but not when he was establishing himself as a 150 odd pound spindly Paul Williams-esque light middleweight fighting guys as heavy as 235lbs.

The "ducking" argument is greatly exaggerated. When he won the title, the first two logical "white hope" contenders mentioned by reporters were Ketchel and Jeffries, and he beat them both. You couldn't argue he defeated two genuine number one contenders, or in the case of Jeffries the "lineal" champion. Admittedly his reign, like Dempseys, turned farcical, but his reputation was built on what he accomplished prior to winning the title.

The funny thing is for a man that "ducked" so many fighters, he got in the ring with almost all of them (exception perhaps of Gunboat Smith) and defeated all of them, albeit not during his actual title reign.

Having said all that, I'm not heavily criticizing the fact you have Holmes higher, I have them pretty close myself, but I feel the depth of Johnsons resume, and his consistent level of topclass competiton sets him ahead.

 

Yep, he is quoted in "Ring of Hate" as saying that he rates Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, and Joe Louis as the three greatest heavyweights ever. Incidentally my top three heavyweights also.

 

Jack Johnson only weighed 175lb when he fought joe choynski, so its not like choynski knocked out the fully mature hulking 205lb jack johnson he later became.



Chris Pontius,

Jack Johnson fought and beat alot of big guys too........