Highest Jack Johnson Rating?

1. Jack Johnson was only 180lb when he fought langford, not exactley a fully mature 205lb ripped jack johnson he later grew into

2. Jeanette was not a teenager. Jeanette had 16 pro fights when jack johnson beat him, thats more than witherspoon had when holmes beat him

3. Mcvea was a teenager but had just knocked out one of the best contenders in the world denver ed martin......so he was a dangerous young fighter.

4. Jack Johnson convinsingly beat all of the above men before his best too.....jack didnt reach his best until about 1908-1910.

5. I have read johnsons biography and politics is a big reason that prevented a jack johnson vs mcvea or langford fight taking place. you have to remember johnson had to flee the country to avoid arrest. believe it or not, a johnson mcvea fight in paris in 1912 was close to coming off, as was a langford fight.

5. He also beat other solid contenders in his coloured reign like denver ed martin, frank childs, peter felix.

 

Cheeky. :twisted:

 

Only joking! :good

 

Really? I have the weights at 185 for Johnson, and 156 for Langford. You tend to add or subtract numbers a bit too much to make your points. Let the facts rule SuzieQ.

False! Some quick facts. Jeanette was 0-3 when he first meet Johnson. He was but 7-4-1 ( 12 fights not 16 ) when Johnson beat him. Johnson beat an in-experinced Jeaentte.

Martin had a glass body and glass jaw. He also beat Mcvey once on points. Since when does beating a teenager mean much in pro boxing?

Before his best? Surely you jest. Johnson lost a drew a few times before 1908. Look it up.

Johnson was known to tell some tall tales in his bio. The fact is, big money was up for him to fight McVey, Jeanette, and Langford. Ksmith might have left that out of his book, but it is true. $50,000 was up, which was a huge purse in those days. The promoter was the same guys ( HD McIntosih ) who put the money up for Burns vs Johnson.

Lol, Felix was 18-12-7, with three losses in a row when Johnson beat him. Hardly a solid contender when the fight happened.

 

Kind of like you claiming "lastarza showed up 10lb lighter against marciano" when in fact lastarza was only about 4-5lb lighter than his average weight? Looks Like I am not the only one 5lb short. Let the facts rule Mendoza.

WRONG!!!! Some quick facts. Jeanette was 7-5-1(13 fights not 12) when Johnson beat him. If Jack Johnson beat an in-experienced Jeanette, than Larry Holmes beat an inexeperienced Tim Witherspoon/Bonecrusher Smith

Martin was 6'6 had excellent slick defensive skills, amazing footwork, and a very good jab, and had power in both hands. He was a dangerous top contender who beat some good men. In fact I have film of Denver Ed Martin easily toying with and embarrasing a Prime Gus Ruhlin. None of the white heavyweights of that era wanted to tangle with Denver ed.

Yes Jack Johnson did not reach his prime until around 1907 or 1908

Felix was a good fighter, but I guess you like to boxrec hunt and determine a fighter's ability like that. I guess Ross Purrity must have been a tomato can then.

 

This is what ESPN classic said. Are you saying they were wrong? Sorry Q, you are the king of add and subtract here, not I.

Ahem, Jeanette was 0-3 when he first meet Johnson, and had an offical record of 7-4-1 ( That's 12 ) according to Box Rec:

1906-01-16
Joe Jennette
7-4-1





Sharkey A.C., New York City, New York, United StatesWNWS33

This content is protected

And he had a glass body and jaw. None of the white hevies wanted to fight Martin? This is false. Martin fought white fighters. Also, Martin did not toy with Ruhlin. It was a sparring match, with Martin being the better for oh, about 2 mintues.

Then he drew with a past his prime O'Brien at 160 pounds, got floored by middle weight Ketchel, and right around his peak years. Sounds like a world beater to me.

Like I Said Felix was done. No he wasn't a top contender like you claimed when Johnson fought him. He had lost his last three in a row...

 

Your wrong once again...........


1906-03-14 Joe Jennette 7-5-1
Baltimore, Maryland, United States W PTS 15 15
Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title



Thats 13 fights, not 12

Roland Lastarza typically weighed around 188-190lb throughout his career. In the 2nd fight, Lastarza came in at 185lb vs rocky marciano. That would make it 3-5lb lighter than his "Average" weight. not 10lb.

 

Why do you persist in saying Johnson drew with OBrien ? it was a 6 round no decision bout ,we have been over and over this with multiple posters correcting you as to the status of the fight and Johnson's woeful lack of condition for it,as he knew he couldnt lose the fight and title than by knockout ,as OBrien had zero punching power Johnson didnt train for this affair,it was a stinker .Johnson was booed for doing vitually nothing ,OBrien was booed for running away all night.You have some front! "let the facts speak for themselves" that is rich ! atsch

 

[FONT=&quot]
I posted the round by round report here McVey. If a decision had to be given, maybe it was O'Brien by a shade. NC or draw, it was a horrible outing by Johnson. At least you admit that. What you will not admit is Johnson was suspect in many outings, then use that reason to justify how formidable he really was in the ring[/FONT]

 

Hmmmm, first you claim 16, now its 13 .

To be correct here, Jeanette had 12 known fights when Johnson beat him on 1-16-1906. 7 plus 4 plus 1 = 12



1906-01-16
Joe Jennette
7-4-1





Sharkey A.C., New York City, New York, United StatesWNWS33

This content is protected

 

Unlike you with Jeffries Johnson isnt my pin up I prefer Dempsey to watch ,but you do like to spin things around to make Jack look bad and boost Jeffries.Eg you make much of the weight difference betwenn Langford and Johnson you say 185 to 156-----29lbs yet how about Jeffries v Fitz? 39lbs,and again 47 lbs or Corbett? 30lbs difference both times ,or Sharkey? 32lbs.That isnt even going into the age difference according to you Johnson wasbeating up green teenagers in Mcvey and Langford ,yet Jefffries is beating prime coming out of retirement mid 30s Corbett and a37 yearold Fitz and again a 40 yearold Fitz these men, according to you were in their primes. Let the facts speak for themselves! When posters pointed out to you the inactivity of these men and their age you stated ahh ,but they had fights that werent recorded .It wasnt long ago you stated that Peter jackson was still a formidable opponent for Jeffries ,when every poster ,disagreed ,several of them providing info to the contrary you fell silent and obfuscated,diluting your original assertion as you did witrh Schmeling on a recent thread ,but you never say well ok I was mistaken.It must be really important to you to allways seem to be right if only in your own mind.I think you would have adopted a completely reasonable line on Schmeling if he wasnt matched against your hero Jeffries ,and there in lies your achilles heel ,you cannot be objective about him ,and neither can you be regarding his conqueror Johnson

 

Technically going by newspaper decisions jack johnson did beat a 8-7-1 joe jeanette in 1906, thats 16 fights. Are u denying whats on boxrec?

Once again your facts are WRONG. are u purosely skipping fights?

Take a look


1906-03-14 Joe Jennette 7-5-1
Baltimore, Maryland, United States W PTS 15 15
Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title




On March 14 1906 jack johnson won a 15 title defense against joe jenette. Jenette's record was 7-5-1. 7+5+1= 13 fights

 

Daily Kennebec Journal, 9/22/06

Stayed the limit but Jeanette Had the Worst Of Bout.
With Jack Johnson.
Philadelphia Sept 2 — Joe Jean-
nette of New York by clever defensive
work for five round and by clinching
in the final managed to last the six rounds limit with Jack Johnson at the Broadway A C Thursday night.
Johnson had every advantage over Joe being 20 pounds heavier and con-
siderably taller. The men mixed it up
the first two rounds - The next was in Johnsons favor his left frequently
reachings Early In the second roun Jeanette
cut Johnson over his eye w i t h a long
left swing Johnson rushed haid but
was wild, and Jeannette three times
reached his eye before the bell rang.
After that the fight was pretty much
all Johnson's although owlng to Jean-
nette's clever blocking Jack never had
his opponent in dlstress except for
a moment In the slxth.




Jenette coming into this bout had a record of 8-7-1 when he fought johnson. That is more bouts than witherspoon had when he took on holmes.

 

Glad and surprised to see Johnson ranked so favorably. Let us never forget that, before the generation that saw him died out, he was considered by just about all "experts" one of the very top heavies ever, along with Louis and Dempsey. He is my number 2 all-time heavy.

It is important to consider that Johnson was content to win a decision, so it is not easy, besides the early film, to grasp his greatness. But his fundamentals were great, his skills polished, his strength huge and his sharpness, speed and combinations top notch. His record is impressive and all this to me matches up with the credentials given him by his contemporaries.

Plus he was fearless and would be mentally second to none of the other greats.

 

Powerpunchers bday :good