Hill vs Maske - did it really begin a new lineage?

Revising history has its place, not least in boxing lineage.

But you have waited too long, for your observation to even be debatable, let alone matter. Boxing lineage changes happen there and then not with 13+ years of hindsight...

If Jones fought Hill or Michalczewski whilst they were lineage champs, and won, then maybe, the lineage would of been tinkered, to take out Hill's and Michalczewski's reigns, but the fights (in this scenario), did not happen.

 

Another thread trying to legitimize jones paper championships... You have to beat the man to be the man and Jones never did that.

 

this thread is about 1 division, not 4

or be the top 2 ranked opponents at the division; jones vs tarver met this criteria

 

i agree i'm just seeing what people's thoughts are.

i agree things happen there and then, i just don't believe that there and then hill and maske were 1 and 2

 

I think so. There was a lineal champ then though. I also think that Jones was the best fighter at lhw the whole time he spent there. It´s a shame he never fought the champ. I think it´s pretty rare for the number one challenger not trying everythign to get a fight with the champ.

btw. no, it´s not Jones fault for this fight not happening. It´s DM´s fault as well but he was at least the champ and shouldn´t run after the chanllenger.

 

i agree to disagree

some people count lineal as 1 vs 3 so hill vs maske would have covered that anyway as would mosley vs margo, vitali vs sanders and wlad vs chagaev. i'm not one of them people.

 

You don´t need to disagree. That´s what´s in the books. :thumbsup

I think it depends on the situation. In this case 1-3 would make sense for the championship because they were 1-2 24 hours before. Or in Wlad and Chagev´s case since expecting the brothers to fight is rather unlikely. Just as examples.

 

:good

nah history shows true lineage begins with 1 vs 2: hart vs root, sharkey vs schmelling, moore vs patterson.

that's the full history of the most prestigious division in our sport. not once from sullivan to Lewis did lineage begin with 1 vs 3

 

Well, yeah. But when the fight was made they were one and two and thus they made the fight for the championship. That another fighter arguably moved in between them 24 hours before doesn´t change that. Sorry but 40-year old McCallum as a Top5 lhw is still a stretch. In his last two fights he lost to Tiozzo in 1995 and then won aainst a journeyman in a 10 rounder. How does this give you a Top5 ranking?

 

Yeah it makes a difference. Atm pac and ortiz are one and two. They can make the fight now and a month later floyd can return to the division, dominate berto and zavek to rise to number 2.

Well at the start of 96 he was top 6 behind sosa. Sosa lost to jones so mccallum moves up a place by default.

Listen undoubtedly they'd have been both top 3. I'm sure also that they were top 2 when they signed, but by the time the fight was mad that wasn't the case. Clearly hill and jones should have fought immediately to claim a new lineage but instead both lost their next fight.

If 1 vs 3 is enough for you that's fine. You probably also recognise floyd and wlad as lineal champs atm. Obviously i'm a bit stricter (mainly to allow for cross era comparisons as trinket belts meant nothing back then) there was not a champ at lhw until jones edged tarver and he lost in his first defence.