History Lesson: Kid Gavilan

Tell you what buddy, that's very, very interesting, because the comparison has been drawn by several people, including the one or two who saw both first hand. Very very interesting. For me, not so much, though there are some similairities and you've done a great job of pointing those out. Keep in mind, too, that Burley is past his very best here - nice observation on the body shot, how about those one-two's. Monster double, if the jab lands the right lands. I love his one two.

There are similarities with Hopkins, too, in my view, the way he is able to control distance even though he has no reach advantage, gliding in and then out.

That, I did not know.

 

Alas, to my knowledge, none exsists.

You've said this before, but I don't think that his prime was at MW. But it does depend upon how you weigh these things. An example - in 1939 Williams outpointed Burley (despite being dropped for multiple counts) over the 15 round distance weighing 148lbs. I'm quite happy to appraise this result (which is a very complicated one) in deciphering the Welterweight version of Williams even though it was an over the limit match. How do you feel about this? From a technical standpoint, Williams is fighting as Middleweight, but you and I both know that 8 minutes of shadowboxing in a robe probably would have dropped the pound without affecting the fighter adversely AND that this pound represents no advantage over a fighter weight 147 in the ring, unless there are weight-making issues.

Of course, Williams has some brilliant wins at 160/158 ish, including over Marshall, Chase, Cocoa Kid, Booker (both Booker and Kid beat him two, I think, though I may be thinking pre-1942 when Williams started to fight more at the bigger weight) and a couple which were technically fought at LHW, too, (not least Bob Sattersfield). But at, or very very close to 147, he has wins over Cocoa Kid, Leto, Burley, Janazzo, Burley, Buffalo, so I am pretty happy that Williams prime was long lasting, and it could actually be argued that it's genesis is at or around the time of the begginings of his monster series with arch-nemisis Cocoa Kid, which was way back in '37, when he was fighting very much as a welter. As an aside, imagine fighting Burley 7 times, and that isn't your principle rivalry? What a career.

I am interested in the Greb comparison. Greb beat Walker up - beat the **** out of him. Walker was exhausted. But Greb was the bigger man - here, Walker is bigger at the weight, here, Walker is the monster. You say that no-one would be able to pressure and overwhelm Kid, and I think that that is not an unreasonable position. Mine is that no-one could put him under with pressure and strength but Walker.

Nevertheless, I don't think it would be wisdom to brawl with Loi, or Kid - or Dick Tiger. There is something connecting these three despite their obvious differences. I'm fascinated by the link...

My feelings concerning Gavilan is that you have to react to him - it is not wisdom to impose a plan on him regardless of what he does, because he will tend to find a way around the corner on you. So Griffith's adaptability is a virtue - unless he overcooks it. If he can control the pace against Kid, I agree that he would win this fight, but my guess is he could not.

 

Nice that you picked it out unaided though!!

 

:twisted:

I would like to see this one ahead of anything, Walker-Greb, Langford ko29 Wills would be in second and third place. Burley BUSTED Moore.