History of lineal heavyweight champs (Video)

One of the best pieces ever posted on the forum.

So there have been three clean breaks in the lineage - Gene Tunney, Rocky Marciano & Lennox Lewis.

Whoever unifies the alphabet belts absolutely does have to fight Tyson Fury for their own historical significance & legacy as heavyweight champion.

It actually ought to be a bigger fight than the one that ultimately unifies the alphabet belts.

It will also be the third time in history (after Joe Frazier v Ali & Tyson v Spinks) that two undefeated & universally recognised (well, kind of) heavyweight champs face each other.

One was an ATG fight, the other an ATG fizzer. Both were incredibly hyped. Tyson v Spinks was the most hyped fight in my time as a boxing fan. Those who were around for the original Ali v Frazier say it truly was the fight of the century.

 

Some of the old footage featured was very interesting.

How excited did the crowd look when Jess Willard flattened Jack Johnson?

I remember reading the editorials in the Australian newspapers when Johnson challenged Tommy Burns for the title.

It was appalling stuff.

And that was in a country where at least he was able to get a title shot.

 

There was another break in the lineage: Jeffries retiring unbeaten. Sure, he came back 5 years later and lost in his only fight against the then-lineal champ, making things much easier, but the lineage certainly stopped and started back up from vacancy with Jeffries' (first) retirement.

 

And Louis, and Ali... both returned but the division had moved on already. And today marks the day that the division fully moved on from Fury, with him losing the Ring belt by not being able to call on technicalities anymore. The TBRB already considered the lineage broken some time ago, and a #1 vs #2 fight takes priority now over waiting until Fury might or might not return.

 

Great video. However, I disagree that Wladimir re-established lineage when he beat Chagaev. The championship was still fractured after that fight. Until we have a new undisputed champion, the last lineage still ended with Lewis. Even worse, Wladimir vs Chagaev was not even #1 vs #2.

 

I agree that Wladimir vs. Chagaev did not establish lineage.

HOWEVER, Wladimir vs. Povetkin clearly established lineage. That was #1 vs. #2 no matter how you slice it, because Vitali was then legitimately retired. There was no person out there that did not rank Povetkin #2 to Wladimir's #1.

 

Another thing people forget, in addition to legitimate drug testing failure and suspension from it, Fury actually announced his retirement.

So... Fury's lineage is over.

 

From what I remember, Vitali had not yet announced his retirement when Wlad and Povetkin fought. But considering that he never fought again you'd have to retroactively say that yes, VK was pretty much retired.

 

Interesting point. I don't agree that the lineage necessarily ends when a fighter retires. If he retires, then returns, the fighter with the earlier claim to the lineal title takes precedence. Kind of like property law.

So to my mind, when Ali returned, he was the lineal champ until Frazier "dethroned" him.

To me that's how title lineage should work.

It means you could have a ridiculous situation where Lennox Lewis announces his return & declares that he's still the lineal champ, but that's unlikely. And it's resolvable by someone knocking over Lennox Lewis.

As a general rule, I think you recognise the guy with the earlier claim to the title. Length of time away doesn't come into it. It might in the case of The Ring championship, but not the true lineal championship. They might be based on similar principles, but they're two different things.

I agree with the conclusion in the video. As of right now, Tyson Fury is the lineal champ & remains so until he's beaten in the ring.

 

Yes, that's the TBRB's standpoint as well. Also, Fury's anti doping hearing might also throw a spanner in the works if they would go with a retroactive ban -which lot's of his fans want to see- because that might end up with him never having won it in the first place.

 

Another interesting twist, if Tyson Fury fights Shannon Briggs when he returns, Briggs will have the opportunity to become a two-time lineal champ.

That would put him in esteemed company - Floyd Patterson, Muhammad Ali, Evander Holyfield, George Foreman & Lennox Lewis (with Ali being the only guy to have won it three times).

 

Two times without an actual belt on the line, that must be a first. But like I already mentioned, Fury's current "linealship" is under heavy fire.

 

Anthony Joshua fans may want to see that but the way to win the lineal championship is in the ring.

Not have it conferred retrospectively by officials.

The Ring & the other organisation you mentioned don't own the lineal championship.

No-one does. It gets decided in the ring on the night.

From my point of view, Tyson Fury is the lineal champ until someone knocks him off.