History's most disgraceful fighter

To be fair the loaded gloves alegation was never proven against Fitzsimmons.

 

I have some sympathy for Alis refusal to fight.

The draft boards were notorious for drafting young black men involved in the civil rights movment and Ali might have smelled a rat.

The outcome of the war rather vindicates anybody who refused to get involved because they thought it was pointless.

 

Then he should have complained about that, rather than attempt to undermine the rationale for the war.

So if the USA had never gotten involved in WWII and Hitler had dominated Europe, would it have been "pointless" for Britain to have made a stand? Does a war have to be victorious to be right?

 

From a selfish point of view, yes, I am 6' 4" and of the blood the Nazi's were looking for, certainly myself and my family would of been no worse off if the Nazi's had conquered Europe, indeed I would not of lost a Grandad, and a Great Grandad it what was (in a selfish way) a pointless war.

 

Yes but the GNP of the ocupied countries fell to a 10th of its pre war level. Living in these countries in 1955 would not have been fun.

 

I am looking it form a purely selfish point of view, do not get me wrong, the Nazi's revile me, and putting some thought into it, I do have a couple of friends who are Jewish, so my life would be poorer.

 

1. I see your points but think your being quite harsh. I think your also ignoring the fact that American leaders start wars without thinking them through first. In retrospect the Vietnam war achieved nothing other than millions dead. Iraq has cost over a million lives. Was it worthwhile? Will it cause the problem of having a foundamentist Iraqi power structure lead by religous extremists? Quite possibly. Hence I want nothing to do with it - if it was for the greater good I may want to. An I am no fan of dictatorships or communism, Im anti-both of them

2. This is a true point Ali was screwed over by some leeching blacks but Im sure if he had more white freinds some of them would have leeched from him too The story is in 1 of Alis biographies, I think it is the first 1 of his biographies, very interesting as it has the trascript of him talking to Joe Frazier as friends about possible 'exhibition or sparing bouts' if Ali couldnt get his licence back.

3. World War 2 had a clear purpose. Vietnam did not.

4. Fair enough at least your balanced. I think Alis a good person and even if you disagree with 'draft dodging' it needs to be put into perspective of someones greater existance and the fact not going to war doesn't hurt any 1 person

 

Most black political activists were given the draft. I think Ali getting the draft especially after failing initial tests is very fishy

There was no talk about 'Ali will be supporting the troops' He may have just been dumped on the front line to wipe him out. These were the days of Hoover who was looking to wipe out political black figures

 

Also america only got involved in ww2 after pearl harbour so for them it clearly wasn't pointless, an i don't count fiancial aid as getting involved.

 

Germany would have lost WW2 if the US had not got involved due to the fact they decided it was a good idea to fight on 2 fronts - Russia and Britain

 

in the ring rocky marciano's mauling of poor old don cockel.elbows,head and allegedly the knee in the groin were all the tools used against the game brit.outside of williard i don't think a fighter took a bigger beating in a heavyweight title fight.it was disgusting from the rock.but i still love him!

 

So ultimately it IS all about winning and not about good/evil?

 

Debatable, but at any rate, the important thing was making a stand. After all, "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

 

It is widely regarded by historians that the war was already won before america got involved, and as i said they helped with m,oney which was obviously good, but i don't count that as involvement.