Holmes-Ali - is it a little underrated of a win

Yeah, Larry has become overrated in H2H sense, I reckon. Aside from Mercer (which was a damn impressive win) and Shavers (who almost KO'd him in the rematch) what are his best perfomances?

Ali beat guys like Liston, Patterson, Terrell and Quarry without hardly breaking a sweat. Also Louis, and even Tyson, Lewis and Liston, has more one-sided wins against solid contenders than Holmes.

When matching him with Ali, many tend to forget not only that Spoon and Williams probably are the best boxers Holmes (barely) beat, but also that Larry would have to deal with the fastest and most precise straight right in HW history.

 

I think this win is sold short a little.

Although Ali was an empty shell he still had enough left to give Trevor Berbick a competitive fight. He was probably still one of the top heavies of the period.

 

No.

 

You've missed the whole point which has been explained many times in ESB (as well as mentioned twice in this thread) and is based on fact.

The Ali Homes beat was not even as good (If you can possibly use the word good at this career stage) as the Ali who lost to Berbick. He was pitiful. There are reasons for this.

 

Ali was better in the Berbick fight. That's why. The thyrolar made it's mark,alright. Holmes deserves no more prestige for this win than Mike Tyson got for beating Holmes himself.

 

Tysons win over Holmes shits all over Holmes's win over Ali.

 

For sure, and Tyson's win over Holmes means sweet fukk all let alone Holmes over Ali :good

 

Where? I've seen more Hopkins hate than love lately.

 

That would not have been the case if Holmes had Futch instead of Giachetti in his corner. Ritchie is a fine trainer, and obviously got Larry to the title, but Eddie would have cleared his mind of the idea to apply unnecessary and undue caution in tackling Ali. Holmes did a better job listening to Futch and carrying out his strategy than Frazier and Norton did in their second and rubber matches with Muhammad. Larry was as upset with Eddie for sitting out his defense with Michael Spinks as he was because of how highly he valued Futch. (Contrast that with Ali giving his blessing to Dundee to work with Ellis against him. Angelo thus wanted to beat Muhammad in the worst way.)

 

The only thing you can say about both those fights,is that they were symbolic,as far as passing the torch went. Apart from that,they were meaningless. Two fights we could all have done without. Seeing Ali slumped in the corner,or Holmes stumbling up from the canvas with a glazed look in his eyes,are not pleasant sights.

 

:thumbsup OMG dat is sooo true!! :thumbsup

Holmes was shot old-grandad when Tyson won him, basicaly teh same as when Holmes beat shot old-grandad Ali. 1980 Ali could Even out-box 1988 Holmes cos they both same level of old And shot. The 1999 Holyfield who Lewis beated would destroy And KO teh shot 1988 Holmes early too. :deal :deal

 

Might one of the reasons be Holmes being better than Berbick?

Not rejecting your point, but if a once great fighter who is shot looses to a younger fighter, then you still have to judge what the win is worth.

Marciano Louis = Louis still a top 3 fighter of the day.

Tyson Holmes = Holmes still a top 3 fighter of the day.

 

Ali was not even a shadow of himself.

A shadow would be Louis vs Marciano were Louis still show some greatness here or there. Ali didnt even had that.

 

A great win by Holmes, totally stripped down the supposedly invincible skills of Ali and reduced him to a clubfighter. That display of guile and technique, to achieve such an outcome against the alleged "Greatest", has never been equalled. The pinnacle of achievemnt in fistiana.

 

Seamus, what? That fight meant nothing. Ali had Parkinsons and was using thyroid medication. Everyone knows that.