Holmes era vs Hagler era?

Hagler had the greater reign for sure imo.

Holmes avoided the top fighters post Witherspoon when he realised he was slipping where as Hagler continued to, and indeed looked for the best matches all the way to the very end.

Hagler also beat an ATG in Hearns, Larry never beat one as Ali was obviously a shell of himself and is dismissed as such. Hagler also has a win over ATG Duran and tho well up in weight and past prime it is still notable in that Duran had another big win in him over 5 years later at 160.

Tho he fell into it Hagler was also the undisputed champ for many years.

Both divisions were weak at the time but Hagler was aided by greats moving up.Both were very solid pre title not never cleaned out the division or anything remotely like that. Hagler did take on some tough fighters considering what stage his career was at pre title. Holmes also had a couple of disputed decisions (Witherspoon, Williams) that were extremely close where as Hagler was completely dominant despite taking on all comers. Heck, only Duran lasted the distance.

So it's Marvin for me via quite a bit of criteria but the big two are taking on all comers all reign and having a win over at least one ATG.

I have both top 5 all time in their divisions respectively.

 

When was the last time 160 was considered a strong division?

 

At various junctions from the early 30's to around the mid 60's things were very strong. The 70's and 80's featured truly great champions but not great divisions. Modernists will mention the late 80's to middish 90's but you have to bracket in 168 to find the real quality. It was a competitive division but the ceiling was quite limited. Jones in reality spent barely any time there and defeating an extremely green Hopkins doesn't really do it even tho that version of jones possibly does surprising things H2H against past greats.

 

I see it this way too. Jones Jr/Toney really became made men higher up.

So we are talking all the way back to SRR era for the last strong middleweight era?

 

When do you think the last truly strong era was? After Benvenuti Monzon dominated the 70's before a few lesser titleists came forth and then we had Hagler who dominated most of the 80's. Monzon's era was decent but far from strong and mirrored Hagler's a little with a couple of Welter greats moving up. Valdez was probably stronger than any natural 160 Hagler faced and plenty would put forward Benny but he lost a lot of fights too. He might also be better than Marvin's natural 160 opponents tho.

 

Both men all time greats for sure. As has been said,though,Hagler's reign has the edge. He fought anyone and everyone wheras Larry avoided a few top guys.

 

I think it's a bit misleading to say that Hagler gets the edge because unlike Holmes he beat or fought several ATG's. Sure Leonard, Hearns and Duran are undoubtedly ATG fighters but not at middleweight. Leonard and Hearns are probably in most people's top 3 or 5 welterweights ever and Duran is arguably still rated the finest Lightweight ever. Not that they weren't formidable fighters at Middleweight but like I said it can be seen as a bit misleading in the context of this thread.

 

Both Hearns and Duran won titles at Middleweight after their fights with Hagler so they have to count for something. Particularly Hearns who won titles at 175 as well. Hearns is Haglers best win.

 

Reighning at HW is always going to be harder no matter how one tries and spin it and as long as Holmes did..Holmes also has bad decisions against him and fights he clearly won that most think he lost here and there. People simply turn a blind eye to how much better technically fighters became after the 70's bc there was no Ali. Holmes defeated a lot of capable tall athlrtic fighters ,he kept fights competitve bc he himseld stuck to basic boxing using only what was working during his fights but he still won.

 

Ca 87-93 featured Nunn, McCallum, Kalambay, Hearns, Eubank, Watson, Benn, Jackson, Toney, McClellan, Jones and Hopkins. Yes, not all of them peaked during this time or at MW, but several of them did hit their peak at this time and weight, and none of them was extremely green or past it.

I think that's an extremely strong division.

 

I was a kid when all this went down and am not the best boxing history student but my counter to this would be although that is a stellar list, most shone in either a higher or lower weightclass than 160. How many are career middleweights?

The fact a career welter was the standout fighter of the last supposedly strong 160 era is not lost on me however.