Holmes from the Norton fight vs Patterson from Ingo 2

Holmes wasn’t just a jab, Patterson was very good at taking away the jab, but Holmes had the uppercut that Patterson was open for, also Holmes was decent at planting his feet and timing guys’ head movement, he’d jab at Patterson to get him to start ducking and to try to close the range, then he’d time him with the uppercut, then follow up with combinations as he is then blinded momentarily, he’d even go to the body, then with the straight as he tries to exit.

I suspect Holmes beats him relatively comfortably late stoppage or on points.

 

These comments are getting comical at this point. There’s not a single opponent of Holmes in his prime (aside from perhaps Cobb but I’m pretty sure even he got a round or so from at least one judge) who hadn’t won a minute of a round. Even Berbick won 2 rounds on a card or two.

I’m starting to wonder if anyone here has actually watched the guy fight.

These dominate performances people predict for him in these H2H matchups were non-existent in his prime against the rather mediocre opposition he actually faced.

 

Holmes won't get chinned. Patterson might.

 

I'm not suggesting he dominated against his opponents, he was in some life and death wars. I'm going to pull my usual card from my back pocket...styles make fights. Floyd does not have the power to gain Holmes respect, he does not have the strength to win inside, he was an explosive mid to short range fighter, a fighter I love watching, and respect hugely, but he simply wouldn't safely make it into his preferred range against Holmes and if he did get there, he'd simply be tied up and spoiled. I think Holmes realises Floyd can't hurt him after the first minute or so and starts sitting down on his punches, busting the smaller man up with stinging jabs and straight rights. Holmes is on a different level to Floyd in my opinion, you disagree and that's cool brother, it wouldn't be much of a discussion forum if we all felt the same. Have a wonderful day swag, peace and love, gbn x

 

Patterson has got oodles of power. The guy could punch. I'm not saying he beats Holmes or anything but to opine Patterson couldn't hurt Holmes is drawing a rather long bow. If he lands his best Holmes would know it.

 

70% or so KO rate i think, yes, he had decent explosive power, but he had to be in his range to use it...and i don't think Holmes let's him work in that range, and this is the crux of my point. If Floyd is able to get 'inside' and work for sure he could hurt Larry but I don't think he can. His biggest wins are maybe Bonavena and Quarry who let him fight that way and were similarly invested in those types of fights. He lost against boxers with good jabs, good distance control and decent power like Liston, Ali and Ellis. Holmes fits the latter category and wears it comfortably, doesn't he? I am a fan of Holmes, and I'm definitely not saying he couldn't be beaten by a smaller man... Spinks showed he could be. Just not one with Patterson's style. And before someone shouts Tyson...Tyson was a phenom who could get into 'his' distance and throw, his speed and accuracy was on a different level to Floyd's, and cats being cats, with pigeons being pigeons...I think peak Holmes beats Tyson whilst at the same time rating Mike's defeat of Holmes as one of the best and most compelling of his career.

 

You wording was actually "Floyd does not have the power to gain Holmes respect," and "I think Holmes realises Floyd can't hurt him after the first minute or so and starts sitting down on his punches".

How does Holmes know Floyd can't hurt him if he hasn't hit him? Would it be safe to assume Holmes thought Snipes couldn't hurt him?

Obviously Holmes would be heavily favored to beat Patterson. Would it be as simple as turning up like you seem to imply? Maybe, maybe not. I find it difficult to believe Holmes beats the tar out of him without tasting a little bit of leather. Patterson has insane handspeed and isn't afraid to have a good crack.

 

I certainly don't think Holmes just has to turn up man. We are talking about a very good version of Holmes here, and I thought I had explained what I mean about Patersons power in my post. I think Holmes wins every minute of this...that does not mean he just has to turn up. You have to be a very good, possibly great fighter to beat Floyd. And I think Holmes was, and for the reasons I have suggested. If my post with regards his power wasn't clear, I apologise, but for me, at that level, 3 minutes is more than enough to assess how likely the other man is to put your lights out. Other opinions are available, and equally valid man, as you are so admirably proving. For me Holmes v Paterson is as one sided as the Liston fights, without the accelerated denoument, or the Ali ones. I usually have Holmes in my top 3, always in my top 5. But...it's only an opinion

 

Did Holmes have the raw power to create fear or intimidation in Floyd, a la Liston?

I agree that Holmes is on a different level than Patterson … I don’t think there was anyone better save Ali and Louis, while I have Floyd at the tail end of my Top 20 … and he comfortably wins this fight, but the biggest reason is his 10-inch reach advantage and his roughly 25-pound weight advantage which as you noted will make it difficult for Floyd to do his thing.

Floyd connects cleanly with a left hook like in Johansson 2, Larry is going on his ass. The problem is Floyd being able to connect.

 

We make similar points. I did suggest a fight against Larry would not have a similar sudden ending like Liston...And let's be charitable. If Floyd did connect with that leaping left, Larry might well go down. But he's getting up, of that I'm pretty sure. Stopped once from memory, and by Tyson no less..

 

Yeah Larry was hard to keep down. Earnie Shavers learned that. Floyd just had some pop for his size. I don’t think he had KO pop for Holmes.

 

Holmes .

 

This. The uppercut would punish Floyd until the end.

 

Realistically I think Holmes could get a TKO win sometime in the later rounds perhaps between 9-12. Patterson was highly skilled and still in his prime. But Holmes would wear him down with those left jabs, right crosses and an occasional uppercut.