Holmes missed out on Page. Not a huge deal.

AFTER Holmes didn't give Norton a rematch.

I'm not saying he ducked Norton - in fact, I'm fairly confident he would've won the rematch by TKO. But, fact remains, it's one many possibly dangerous fights that Holmes said no to.


By the way, the title of this thread is really misleading. It's like saying Bowe missed out on Lewis, when that WBC belt somehow found its way to the trashcan.

 

Wrong Chris. Again, the alphabets demanded the fight. The same groups that were robbing Holmes for years after this and the motivating factor why post Cooney he said enough. Get tour facts right. Do your research.

 

excellent point

 

Anyone who mentions Holmes giving up his title and doesn't say a word about Holmes signing for a big unification fight with Coetzee instead is either deliberately choosing to ignore or completely oblivious to what actually happened here.

 

Glad to see there are still some guys who remember the facts of the time JT, CP, Zadfrak ....I think we all know he grant and Mendoza are the masters of the rose-colored glasses when it comes to Holmes

 

What about Witherspoon? Shavers? Weaver?

Berbick is different stylistically to Holmes.

 

Or, like me, they believe in "actions speak louder than words". The words may be that he'd unify and fight Coetzee, the action was that he was fighting the 10-1 Marvis Frazier's, Scott Frank's and Rodriguez's. There's always reasons to find "South Africa is full of racism", "Don King robs fighters", etc. Of course, when he was going up against a soft touch that signed with Don King, he had no problem with it whatsoever. :good

Holmes in fact stated several times that he was tired of boxing using him, now that he had the title he was going to use boxing. And that's his right to do of course, but it should be taken into account when ranking him.

 

Those fights were before the whole WBC/Page/Coetzee incident - and if you want to criticize him for his actions during that stretch, I won't argue with you. But the action that followed giving up his title was that he actually SIGNED to fight Coetzee - in fact, more than once - and it was ultimately a lawsuit and court judge who shot the fight dead in late '84.

 

There's only two things needed to make a fight: willingness from a fighter, and money to be made. Anything else like judges' rulings are just excuses. A near-dead Ali was easily cleared to fight by "doctors" against Holmes. Margarito's eye was messed up so bad that he always wore shades, still able to fight Cotto. Tyson was with Showtime and Lewis with HBO, they still made the fight.

Bottomline is that Holmes could've gotten a lot of fights against top opponents, but choose not to. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluding themselves.

 

No, there's also THE LAW - or else we're back to fighting in barroom cellars and barges in the middle of the Pacific, like in the bareknuckles days.

You say that, and yet NONE of the "examples" you provide have anything to do with federal court rulings.

Maybe so, but Coetzee wasn't one of them.

 

Why didn't Holmes give Norton an immediate rematch? In such a close, hotly contested fight, it's not uncommon for the victor to grant the loser an immediate rematch. Why did Norton have to fight an eliminator to get the right to fight Holmes? Spinks gave Holmes a rematch. Larry didn't have to fight an eliminator to get the right to fight Spinks again.

 

Not taking sides here, but I believe Holmes' WBC title was already stripped and gone by the time he fought Marvis Frazier, which was actually a non-title bout. Not sure when exactly the belt was taken from him, but I think it was sometime in late 83'..

 

Holmes has often bemoaned the fact that he has not been given the same credit as some other champions.

If he wanted it that badly, then there are certain things that he could have done to get it.

 

Well said Chris

 

Why would they mention that?

Sorry but you've got the entire timeline completely wrong and your claim/point is 100% null and void. You've got the complete wrong fight/fights.

Coetzee had not even defeated Dokes when Holmes was refusing to fight Page so why would any unification need be mentioned???

Holmes promised to fight Page after he fought Frank, and he was let off on that condition. Then he signed to fight Mighty Marvis Frazier and enough was enough.

Here's an extra - Holmes had actually signed to fight Page, and THEN backed out.

Coetzee has nothing to do with the discussion. It was funny tho when the bout was worth less Holmes said he would never fight "that goddamn South African" on moral grounds but when the money went ginormous there he was, clamouring. Great scruples.

I haven't forgot your other lengthy post mate, just building up to it. Your posts require more thought and better responses than the rest.