Holmes or Ali - Close Calls

I scored the 3rd Norton- fight, the Young- bout and the Shavers- fight against Ali.

 

Honestly, IMO, only the third Norton fight might be argued to be a gift for Ali.

Jimmy Young (I liked him) might have scored more than Ali in their bout but it would have been unfair to give him the decision. The reason being that whenever Ali was getting too much for him, he would stick out his head and upper torso out of the ropes thus preventing Ali from scoring. One doesn't really win a fight - much less the heavyweight title of the world with such tactics.

Jones, Norton II and Shavers were close contests which Ali won.

 

I had Ali beating Shavers, I saw it in MSG, he rope a doped a lot but Shavers was one dimentional...ALi lost to Young and Norton but got the benifit. Holmes had Withespoon and Williams....kinda close here but they both had the edge of the officials and would have to be really beaten to get a loss, Spinks beat Holmes clearly as did Norton in the 1st fight

 

Bummy, Norton beat Larry clearly? I had Larry winning 9-6. I scored the last round in favor of Norton though.

 

Don't be so surprised, Bummy scored the second Holmes - Spinks fight for Spinks by a point or two. I'd be very intrigued to see his scorecard for these two fights actually

 

Didn't he also try and use Liston's loss to Leotis Martin as a reason for thinking that he'd have no chance against Joe Louis? I seem to remember you debating with him in rather heated fashion a few months back.

I think I scored the debate in favour of John Thomas 118-109 or something.

 

Yeah, that and a couple of days ago summing up Liston via the Marty Marshall loss in his 8th pro fight. Any heavyweight not named Louis or Marciano (Dempsey to a bit lesser extent) or not having been beaten by these two is open slather.

 

No, its just the opposite with you young Cybor punks,who like to take one sentence and put your twist on it and leave out the whole point of the post. Anyway I can see the predjudice when it comes to the older fighters like Louis and Marciano. You guys all seem to talk about weight and size advantage as the reason for your beloved fighters edge. Anyway the reason I do not reply is because i can see there are a few guys who are fixed in there opinions and get mad when someone has a difference of opinion and it is a waste of my time to respond. I love Boxing and I am not fixed in one era, as I can see they are potential great fighters today as well as yesterday but a lot of you guys are predictable, not you Bill1234, you have an open mind to your credit and respond respectfully to others. Face to face I never have that problem but on the internet and phone, people can have a tendency to get disrespectfull. I call then Cybor toughguys or telephone toughguys. As far as Norton/Holmes I felt Holmes won that fight by 2 rounds, I reread that post and I meant to say Norton beat Ali clearly in there 1st fight as I felt Spinks won his 1st fight vs Holmes clearly in his1st fight, MY BAD....

 

You accused me of this the other night so i respectfully broke down your entire post and await your response.

Or did they simply expose your post? You were the one slinging insults mate, i'd asume that to be closer to getting mad than someone having a chuckle at preposterous standards.

:rofl

You said Spinks won the second fight against Holmes, did you not?

:hey

 

I don't know about this particular discussion, but Bummy Davis (the poster) has a very deep knowledge (especially about amateur boxing) and also appreciates some modern fighters; i don't think he has an agenda or anything, just a fan of the sport with his own opinion.

 

You would consider that a well balanced post with no agenda?


"Spinks beat Holmes clearly as did Norton in the 1st fight"

If "his own opinion" means berating Ali, Liston, Lewis, Frazier, Holyfield, Holmes and whoever else to make Louis and Marciano look better then then you are absolutely spot on.

 

Yeah, I couldn't even get through some of those quotes of Bummy's without rolling my eyes. I don't want to insult anybody, and I certainly don't have anything personal against Bummy, but I have to agree with you that his posts are not exactly balanced. Especially, when one brings up Liston's loss in only his 8th pro fight, as a measure for how he'd do against Marciano or Louis at their perspective bests. If that isn't the height of bias, then I can't even begin to imagine what is.

If nothing else, its definately a poor approach at doing an analytical comparison.

 

Phew, i was starting to get paranoid there for a moment, thanks for the assurement of my own sanity

:happy

 

I would not consider an assurement from Mr. Magoo for your sanity because you guys are birds of a feather or 2 pea's in a pod. In regard to Liston losing to Marty Marshall in his 8th fight or getting dropped in his dominant win in his 10th fight rematch or Listons decision win in his 15th fight my point was that Marshall was 179-180 lbs for these fights. My point was that Marshall was a small heavy who fought most of his career between 173-185. Another fighter Burt Whitehurst was KOD 2 times by Archie Moore but Whitehurst went the distance 2 times vs Liston who weighed 212 to Burts 190 in 1 fight. I thought a lot of Liston until he quit in 2 fights vs Ali and then I had to take away a lot of points for heart. As far as Riddick Bowe, he showed some very good promise and his triolgy with Holyfeild were classics but Riddick had a hard time staying consistant in condition, he was lazy in the ring and IMO if he was in with well conditioned fighter like Mike Tyson that could punch, the fight would not have gone long. Golota did everything to mess up his almost victorys vs Bowe and Golota failed badly in his fight vs Lewis and Tyson. I think my response that Marciano would ko Bowe was in response to someone saying Bowe would win because he was bigger,which is not enough to merit an ATG placing. As said in my post When I spoke about Spinks winning the 1st Homes fight clearly, meant to say Ali lost the 1st Norton fight clearly not Holmes who I felt won the Norton fight and capped it off with a strong last round(last minute finish. I posted the 2nd Holmes /Spinks ws closer but again I did not feel that Holmes did enough to take Spinks title.

 

Great minds think alike my good man. :good