Holmes Or Foreman -Whom Do You Rate Higher?

On that I wholeheartdly agree.

Too much has been made of Young defeating Foreman, rising that fight to quasi mythological proportions.

The Foreman that Young beat was a sub par version, his confidence shattered, struggling to get back in the game and just one step away from retirement.

 

Fighters who only fought Foreman count as title contenders. They fought for the HW title.

Besides Grimsley theres really no problem with the other guys to fight Foreman. Briggs is a world champ and Savarese is a USBA champ who was 36-0. But I'm not counting Morrison because WBO was very plainly not a world title at this point. I start considering the WBO a major title with Bryd v Vitali.

I'll admit Grimsley is probably the worst HW title contender ever. Despite the records of Grimsleys opponents making ones eyes bleed the WBA bare some responsibility because they apparently ranked him 9th. As does the Central American boxing federation for giving Grimsley a belt for fighting guys who were 11-34 and 0-7 respectively. Without them Grimsley wouldn't have been on Foremans radar. There should be some sort of requirement to be above .500 to fight for any sort of regional honor. 20-0 with 3 wins out of 20 over guys with a winning record and 2 against the same opponent a list he'd never add to. And the records weren't below .500 they were way below .500 11-33,11-34,3-11, 0-7,4-19. In Grimsleys defense he was undefeated and 14 of his wins were 1st round knockouts?

I also counted rematches which is only Frazier and Peralta. But thats where the 4 LHW contenders come from.

All the fighters Foreman fought for the NABF fought for the world title. You like the early 80s WBA belt and the NABF champ had more credibility in the 70s than the WBA champ had in the early 80s. If we consider the 4th champ at times a major champ the second champ should be considered one especially if they are an ex champ whose only loss is to the 1st champ.

Thoughts on the context on some of these Foreman wins.

Chuvalo-Is mainly known for his chin and Foreman and Frazier are the only two to stop him.

Lyle-His chin was tested and Lyle was out in 5.

Ledoux-Knocked down Lyle and Norton. 80 inch reach. Solid win.

Young-It was a close fight against one of the most skilled HWs ever who was super hard to knock out. If not for the point deduction and the knockdown when Foreman was desperate thats a draw. People are looking at this fight wrong. After rope a dope people were questioning Foremans stamina. Holding his own against Young was the first evidence Foreman was capable of being the guy he was in the 90s.

Briggs-Foreman was 48 about to turn 49 when he fought Briggs who proceeded to give Lennox a little scare.

Schulz-2nd best fighter in Europe at this time who had 2 close fights with number 1. The only guy to clearly beat him before his first retirement was Wladimir Klitschko.

Wepner- Wepner was the biggest opponent Liston beat and Listons Foremans main competition for hardest puncher ever. Wepner was the resident big guy at HW after Mathis retired and he beat Ernie Terrell. Lost most of his big fights but almost beat Ali in the fight that inspired Rocky.

 

I'm one of the biggest Foreman supporters here and I think instead of running from that fight we should embrace it as a positive. Foreman someone whose cardio everyone questioned lost a close 12 round decision to Jimmy Young while suffering from the heat. Other than Foreman himself and Ali Jimmy Young was the toughest HW of this era to knock out and the most capable of following the blueprint Ali laid out in Zaire.

Foreman got knocked down because he was in the last round of a competitive fight and desperate for a KO. At the end of the fight his confidence was indeed shattered from trying and failing to knock someone out for 12 rounds no ones arguing the mental health end of things. But if Foreman failed to knock down Young multiple times which was a real possibility how was this supposed to be anything better than a very close fight? Foreman greatly outperformed Lyle. On Foremans worst scorecard he had 4 rounds.

 

Foreman is the bigger puncher but Holmes is the overall better fighter.