Holmes Or Frazier?

I’d pick Frazier head to head but Holmes maybe does better if they fight the other top10 guys and compare results. Holmes overall ranks higher but it’s very close.

 

h2h Frazier

Accomplishments Holmes

However, Fraziers best win is a lot better than Holmes's best win

I rank Holmes higher but I can see a case for the reverse

 

I think Joe is a difficult H2H matchup for Larry but Holmes kept his focus and drive for so much longer. Gotta go with the Easton Assassin.

 

Head to head Frazier wears down Holmes in a 15 rounder, worse than he beat Ali. Holmes never saw that kind of a pressure fighter ,I might rate Holmes higher overall though, I know that sounds a little strange but Joe's style is what it takes to beat Larry

 

Very close. Since these two are so close in the rankings, it only makes since they would have such a close fight. Either man by close decision. 50/ 50 in my opinion. There can't be an upset.

 

I think it's a pick 'em, head to head. Maybe a narrow edge to Frazier as the first Ali fight (though he did ultimately lose the series 1-2, lest we forget) might provide a reasonable template and while Holmes was a very respectable hitter, he didn't have that booming power which Frazier was vulnerable against. Moreover while Frazier was most vulnerable early, Holmes wasn't always the quickest starter. Both at their best I'd maybe go with Frazier by a narrow margin but as I said, not much in it.

Overall, though, Holmes is clearly the greater fighter for me and outranks Joe by a reasonable margin. I find that once you get past Ali and Louis and try to pick a number three, you can find almost as many reasons not to place any of the candidates there as you can to do so, given that a lot of the most notable Heavyweights tend to score very well in some areas, but miserably in others.

Holmes is the exception, hence why I have him as #3. While a lot of the other candidates flitter between extremes depending on the criteria, Holmes is very consistent right across the board, even if he's not outstanding in any one area. He has talent and head-to-head potential, he has longevity, he has a great title reign, he has plenty of solid or good wins, and he has consistency. He's the closest guy to Ali and Louis in my opinion, whereas Frazier usually comes in around the #9 spot for me, give or take.

 

Frazier. The main edge Holmes has in terms of greatness is longevity, but Frazier would have lasted a lot longer in a weaker era with no Ali or Foreman on the horizon and he was able to make loads of defences against Zanon/Rodriguez/LeDoux level opponents.

I'd also pick Frazier over Holmes head to head. Frazier has the right style and strengths and already beat a better version of Holmes in Ali.

 

Ali had no issues landing and Holmes was just as accurate as Ali. And he punched harder and was less susceptible to left hooks than Ali, which was Joe Frazier's thing. He may be able to pull it off.

 

Holmes may not have an issue landing but Holmes did not have Ali's handspeed. Even an early 70's Ali was quicker handed than Holmes

I also don/t think Holmes could absorb quite the same amount of punishment to the body that Ali could. Joe's left hooks to the body would wear Holmes down IMO.

Close but I think Frazier beats him.

 

Welcome back man!

 

Joe didn't have the kind of right hand that would bother Holmes, and Larry proved he could dodge left hooks pretty well.

I see a fight between them as being one of the greatest of all time, prime for prime, but I have to give it to Holmes by split decision in 15. Prime Holmes was better than 1971 Ali, though it pains me a bit to say. I think even 60s Ali would have had to fight hard for split decision against prime Joe.

As far as overall accomplishment, Larry was definitely a greater ATG imo.

 

You can most certainly debate one over the other historically. Our very own McGrain's lists are probably the most comprehensive and hard thought ever assembled and he has Frazier at #5 with Holmes at #7.

I have Holmes ahead of Joe personally.

H2H i'd take Joe by late stoppage or decision but it would be one very very grueling fight. I think Frazier's relentlessness and ferocious consistent body attack would allow him to finish the stronger later in the fight.

 

Larry Holmes was greater. He was the best heavyweight of his time. Frazier was great but he burned out much sooner.

Peak vs Peak I think Joe Frazier does what he did to Ali. Tough fight, high contact , courage on both sides. One difference Frazier stops Holmes in the championship rounds. Holmes was durable but he wasnt Ali in terms of absorbing those hooks to the body and head.
It would be the body punching round after round that eventually have Larry do the human thing..be rendered helpless. Holmes is a great honest dude and I could picture him start thinking about his bank account anytime after round 11 or 12. He got enough $. Big house, nice cars and this guy is crazy. Joe Frazier was on fire about 70-71.