Holmes or Louis: Who had the most impressive record?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Apr 10, 2008.


  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For me this a pretty tough question. Most will probably automatically say Louis, but I think it's a bit more to it than that.

    Holmes: He had 20 title defences and 48 victories before he suffered his first defeat. He was never defeated in his prime and he also had a pretty impressive second career. He never unified the title though, and as stated in a recent thread there was some top contenders that he didn't face.

    Louis: A very impressive rise to the top and 25 title defences to boot is nearly as good as it gets. Add to that that he only suffered one defeat when close to his prime, a defeat which he thorougly avenged. But I have one problem with his record and that is that he fought so few other black fighters. We all know that black fighters more or less was banned from HW title fights until Louis, and even a fighter as impressive as Louis had to carefully build a non-threatening image to get his shot at the big time. Considering that Louis only fought two black contenders and how black fighters began to dominate the division shortly after Louis, I find it very hard to believe that there weren't more black fighters that deserved a shot at the title during Louis's reign. I believe that Louis was thought to fill the quote in the eyes of those who ran boxing in those days. So for me, his lack of defenses against black fighters is a blotch on Louis's otherwise outstanding record.

    So what do you think? Can a case be made that Holme's record was as good or even better than Louis's? Personally I'm undecided, so let me hear your thoughts on this.
     
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'd say Louis.

    Even more consistency than Holmes, far less close calls, Louis's best wins are far better than Holme's best.

    Holme's would be hard pressed to equal Louis's one round murder of, say, Schmeling.
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    By Far Louis..........Louis always gave rematches in close fights, and though louis ducked black fighters Harry Bobo, Elmer Ray(in fairness louis knocked him out badly in a live exhibition), Lee Q Murray, Lem Franklin, Jack Trammell..........he didnt duck his mandatory # 1s the way Larry did.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I dont think it is even competitive to be honest.

    Louis and Ali are in a class removed from every other heavyweight champion in history in terms of resume.
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Louis's resume and record are both more impressive than Holmes, but not by the vast margin that some here are making it out to be. Holmes stayed unbeaten through 48 pro fights, and was never KO'd in his prime. Louis was Ko'd or stopped in all three of his defeats weather they occurred during or past his best. Holmes fought some of the best hitters in history and normally came away with a win. He was also phenomenal coming back in his 40's to show that he could still perform as a top rater in one of the most competitive eras. Holmes came close to matching Marciano's record for best undefeated streak as well as Louis's record for most title defenses. Some say he should have selected different challengers, but if we really dig deep, nearly every champion is guilty of not fighting every last good fighter of his day.

    I will always rate Louis a few places higher than Holmes, but to say that he is in an entirely different league presents an opinion contrary to my own.
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm impressed by your knowledge. But couldn't it be so that one or several of them could have reached the number 1 spot if they weren't black? After Louis the floodgates seemed to have opened up with two of the next three champions being black and most contenders being black as well.
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Quite possibly yes. But alot of them i listed were ranked in the top 5, which is pretty high. I got my opinions based on newspaper reads louis managment quoting how dangerous bobo and ray were.

    I totally agree.
     
  8. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing

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    Holmes for me....his only ko loss was againts a prime Tyson...
     
  9. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Louis fought some massive hitters himself, and being a bit smaller than Holme's merits mentioning as well.

    Joe did wipe his ass with both Baer's, and both were disgustingly powerful punchers.
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Buddy Baer is a very underated fighter. The man had skills for his size.
     
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    This is very true. Buddy Baer was larger than Gerry Cooney and arguably hit harder. ( though I think Cooney was a tad more skilled but still ). Louis proved himself against some real monsters. There's no getting around that.
     
  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    And considering he weighed under 200 pounds at times...

    Just a P4P consideration. Holme's had some superheavy measurments, for instance.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Buddy must have been strong to break that bulls neck in "Quo Vadis"!
     
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I never heard or read anything about that, but I question how big this bull was, or weather or not it was drugged. Even the biggest, strongest and most daring of men, would get killed by a full sized healthy bull that was trying to charge them. Frankly, that story sounds like bull**** to me.
     
  15. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Maybe they just had a medium/small sized bull that wasn't in a rage and they had him kill it or some such?

    Guy was ****ing huge, a lot bigger than Max who was a freak himself.