Holmes says he would have beaten Ali in his prime

Agreed,

even after returning from a four year layoff, he fought in a very competitive high paced fight against Joe Frazier, and neither of those guys stopped throwing punches until the final bell. That's to say nothing about battling a prime Foreman in the god aweful heat of Zaire and taking punches from one of the hardest hitters of all time at age 32. Then there's the Norton Trilogy-another high pressure fast paced series of fights. Earnie Shavers may very well be the best fighter Holmes ever beat, and Ali defeated him 6 months before Holmes did at age 35. Holmes looked like he was going to die in the 11th round against Mike Weaver before launching that huge uppercut. He was also visibly in the late rounds against an aging Norton. I don't think Holmes had better stamina.

 

The prime Ali never had his stamina tested in the later rounds in the 1960's. Terell was injured and sloooow in that fight.

Ali's stamina was tested in the 1970's by better fighters, and he rested on the ropes, clinched a lot, covered up, took rounds, off, etc...

In addtion, Holmes is more active on flim. Sorry Ali fan's, let us be objective here.

 

wrong. now tell me the correct answer why a young Ali could dance around much more than the old Ali :rofl

 

Jeeeeezzz.

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Chicken or the egg. Do you not think the Ali of 1967 would have been more active and less-inclinded to lean on the ropes than the 1971 Ali did? And maybe the reason Ali's stamina was never "tested" as you say in the 1960's is because he never got tired enough to slow down and lay against the ropes like he did in the 1970's. Ali never had to rest or lay on the ropes in the 1960's because he had the stamina to keep moving. Joe Frazier would have had a hard time not only tagging but keeping up with a prime Ali.

 

I'd be pretty proud too if I wasn't even pro yet and had only been boxing for 4 years and was Ali's top sparring partner. Larry openly says this is one of his fondest memories, nothing wrong with that. I'm sure he didn't do quite as well as he says, but there is film of him give Ali trouble. He also says he knows Ali wasn't as good in the gym as he was on fightnight, and said that he needed all of those people watching and for the pressure to be on for him to be at his best.

 

Holmes also had the flu in the Weaver fight, so that would limit his stamina quite a bit. Either way though, that wasn't a good night for Larry.

I do agree with much of this post, but it should also be mentioned that Larry had a higher workrate than Ali did, and didn't seem to mind to slug it out for a few rounds of the fight (which drains you much quicker). He looked like he could have gone another 5 rounds against Berbick, Cooney and Cobb. It should be mentioned that Larry fought in Zaire and in Manilla as well, so he fought under the same conditions, of course not through the gruelling rounds that Foreman, Frazier, and Ali did though in those settings, but he fought in plenty of tough ones like the hot night in June of 82.

 

Mendoza, obviously you haven't seen much of Ali and has a clear bias against him. Ali was at his best in the late 60's (he himself, Dundee and many others said so, in Hauser's biograpy for example). During this years he fought at a faster pace than I've seen any other heavyweight do for 15 rounds - against Chuvalo and Terrell for example. If you actually bother to watch these fights you will see that there is little resting and clinching involved and that Ali is up on his toes and punching for almost the whole fight on both occassions.

Against Jones Ali stood flatfooted for some reason and therefore was easier to hit. But the punch Jones gave Ali most trouble with was a right counter, not the jab. This was also when Ali was still very young, before his prime.

Mildenberger's southpaw stance was awkward for Ali, but he didn't land too many clean punches and certainly didn't outjab Ali.

Nuff said.

 

Ali got up for all his big fights, but I think on average, a prime version of Holmes would prevail over post-exile Ali. I just feel that Larry is a smarter fighter and a better pure boxer. I picture Muhammad possibly over-exerting himself trying to outdo Larry. Larry might even unintentionally drive Muhammad into committing a critical error-- when the time comes for Larry to box, as in dance on his toes, you just know Ali will follow suit just to upstage his former sparring partner! This is not good strategy. He'll get picked off with the jab without a moment's time to adjust or counter-attack. He might muster up a points victory once or twice, but not enough times to overturn a series.

A pre-exile meeting would be harder to predict. Ali's speed would be intact, although I don't see it being a major, deciding factor. Both would present stylistic problems to the other, but their chins are so durable (and their power so lacking) that the knockout is unlikely as well. I think it is a good bet that Ali will find Larry with the overhand right on more than one occasion. This fight here, in all practical sense, is a mirror-image fight like Norton-Garcia.

On average, Holmes SD seems the likeliest for me.

 

I'm sorry ,but if you think Ali beats Holmes easily ,I have to doubt your knowledge of Boxing,Ali is my number 1 at Heavy but Holmes would allways give him a very close fight ,and over a 3 fight series would probably take 1 decision.Holmes actually has better fundamentals than Ali,imo,not quite as fast but a more rounded fighter.

 

would be a close fight actually but ali wins on decision

 

I'd pick Ali up to the Thrilla in Manilla. After that, I'd give Holmes the nod. If an older Norton gave a prime Holmes that much trouble, I'd have to say Ali would have an excellent chance. Stamina of these two is hard to doubt. I watched Manilla last night and Ali & Frazier were banging almost all night long.

 

Only past Manilla? The Norton of the Holmes fight fought like he did in his prime. Norton gave all boxers trouble, he just had the style to do it.