Holmes says he would have beaten Ali in his prime

...you're right;he's not an obnoxious jerk-I said I was being nice.In 1980, he fought 3 guys(boxrec.com)-the world's slowest heavy's ever could've done ok with them(I'd probably take Scott Ledoux over Holmes in a street fight).Holmes is way beyond a *****..I don't doubt that he can be a "nice guy" for pr,but I happened to see him training for Leon Spinks(aside from his Rocky Marciano Michael Spinks comment) in Detroit in '81 at Joe Louis Arena.Holmes grabbed the mike,made a bunch of obnoxious Gay jokes about Spinks-half his size-and sent his goon(security) squad into the
crowd to eject anyone making too much noise.Holmes was a seriously ******* version of Rodney Dangerfield.

 

Yeah, if Holmes isn't an obnoxious jerk and an ******* he sure does a tremendous imitiation of one.

 

Sonny;you duh man.

 

I think he's gotten better over the years. Is it old age? Is it the realization that he needs to be nicer to save public face? Who knows. I agree that he was certainly obnoxious during his champioship years, but to be fair, the public and the press weren't exactly nice to him either.

 

He usually acted up against his opponents though. I seem to remember he used racist slurs against David Bey, he belittled a lot of guys. I remember after one of his comeback fights he was patronizing about one of his opponents and was rubbing it in how rich he was in comparison to this part-time journeyman. This was when Holmes was in his 40s. He didn't always come across as a great sportsman, in the ring or out of it. He tried to brawl with Cooney and Cosell after the Leon Spinks fight. I know it's all part of the game, it's about psyching guys out and hyping fights, but sometimes Holmes just didn't seem a "likeable" guy, and as a family man and a successful businessman he should have known better. To be fair, he's not the only modern champ guilty of such obnoxiousness. Many other post-Ali champs have been equally arrogant and obnoxious.

Still, he was a damned good fighter.

 

Yeah he was an ******* to some degree. I remember back in 1991 or 92, he had some street scuffle with Trevor Berbick ( an even bigger ******* ). Weather or not it was staged or serious I'll never know. He also definately had a problem with white people, and despite his efforts at holding back, it still showed through. Like you said, he was a great fighter, which is why we followed his career. We have to remind outselves that its not because of their wonderful nature that we admire these guys.

 

hahaha.....I can actually picture Holmes doing that. Yeah, I've always felt that Holmes was a bit lacking in the class department. An example of this is how Holmes always tried to goad Foreman into a fight and into a war of words. Holmes never passed up an opportunity to bash Foreman in some way, and I always felt that the sole motivating factoring for Holmes dislike and disrespect of Foreman was Holmes' intense jealousy of Foreman's success. And Foreman, for all of his faults, never retaliated or said a word about Holmes. He just let the classless jerk ramble on and act like a moron; and George would go back to his Texas ranch and count his money and check his Grill sales! Holmes was JEALOUS of Foreman's success, and I feel that it pissed him off that Foreman was so much more popular and WAAAYYYYYY Richer! hahaha....And George nabbed a championship belt during his comeback, and Holmes didn't! hahahaha.....I can just envision Larry sitting at his house sticking pins into a voodoo doll of George Foreman!

 

If Holmes and Foreman had ever fought each other, Holmes MIGHT well have won.
But I think Foreman was the greater fighter. I'd rank him higher on the all-time list.

 

I always thought that if Foreman and Holmes had fought in the late 90's - about the time they were originally supposed to fight - that Foreman would have won. The way Foreman looked against Savarese and Briggs - he had good stamina and fought at a good pace in both fights - that he probably would have been able to outwork Holmes, who definitely was lacking in the stamina department at the time. It seemed to me that Foreman retained more of his natural gifts than did Holmes at an advanced age. Holmes had to fight more like a plodding puncher, and he was never a puncher to begin with, and that would have benefited Foreman.

 

It would have been interesting. Holmes would not have been able to fool Foreman like he did Mercer, or like he tried doing with Holyfield and McCall, laying on the ropes and countering. But he might have been able to box and jab in ring center and steal the win. But you're right, Holmes was flat-footed and tired in his old age, and Foreman wouldn't let him hold and spoil too much or dictate the action, like he got away with against Mercer.

People criticize Foreman for taking on Savarese, Briggs and Schulz when he was 45-48 years old.
But Holmes fought a fair few similar opposition (Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, Scott LeDoux etc.) as champion when he was in his prime.

 

Savarese and Briggs would have been tough fights for Holmes. Savarese and Briggs were decent opponents; they weren't bums at all. They weren't the cream of the crop, but they were at least live bodies. And Holmes would have had his hands full with either of them. I think Briggs would have beaten him at that stage. Mo' Harris kicked Holmes' butt but didn't get the decision, and Briggs had more power and more tools in my opinion.

 

Holmes would have given him trouble, but Ali 65 to 67 would have beaten Holmes.

 

I'm pretty sure they are.. I think I need to examine them further to make absolutely certain, however

 

For public relations he's only nice? I've seen him come stumbling into the gym 100% smashed and barely knowing why he was there and was a great guy. When I went to his resturant he got up, shook my hand, introduced me to his daughter and her fiance, and offered hot wings on the house along with as many beers as we would have liked. In the gym even when he's as mad as Mike Tyson getting refused a blow job, he still has time to give out pointers and help us. What happens is, Larry makes a joke, but he has a bit of speach problem (if you're too oblivious to notice), and he doesn't have good voice inflection or any of that, he either yells, talks stearn, or talks regular. That's all he can do.

Larry didn't like Leon. A bit after they signed to fight Leon was acting like an ass infront of the great Joe Louis him self, taking little boxing glove doo-dads and throwing them at people. He also was making inappropriate comments to Larry's wife. If you talk smack or say something bad to Larry's family, he will beat the hell out of you for it. That's why he kicked Berbick in the face back in 1991.

As for Ledoux over Holmes in a street fight, I highly doubt it. Larry was a damn good street fighter, you had to be growing up in the projects of Easton. IMO Larry was a slugger at heart, he just lacked the power to be one, and knew he had great hand and foot speed, so he boxed instead of slugged for the most part.