Holmes vs Snipes – was it a premature stoppage?

Yeah I’ve always thought so. Not that I felt Snipes was going to win or anything but it could have been allowed to continue.

 

Agreed.

 

Larry himself told Howard Cosell he himself was not ready for it to end, that he wanted a far more conclusive finish which would have been satisfactory for everybody.

However, there's no question he'd have stopped Renaldo. There were still two minutes to go in round 11, and I didn't see how Mr. Snipes ever could've gotten through the complete Championship Distance.

Somewhat overshadowed by the knockdown Snipes produced in round seven is the fact Renaldo competed off and on for another dozen years until his final bout, when the referee stopped it to the disgust of Snipes with only 45 seconds left to go in the tenth and final scheduled round. He proved an extremely tough and resilient customer over his remaining 25 matches, which should add luster to how Larry got off the deck to stun him into unresponsiveness at the conclusion when referee Rudy Ortega decided to call a halt.

Renaldo took 11 punches at the end, but did swing a missed right immediately before the stoppage. Considering how he'd rebounded when Larry hurt him earlier in their match, my personal feeling at the time is that Ortega should've given him more of a chance to recover. But after ten rounds, Larry was ahead 96-91, 97-91 and 96-93. Barring any further KDs scored by Snipes, Holmes clearly had round 11 in the bag, clinching the scoring on two of the cards. If down by 106-99, 106-99 and 106-102 or even more following a 10-8 or 10-7 11th round by Larry, Renaldo would've needed to somehow stop Larry to win the Title. Given how Holmes followed up Snipes with Cooney and Cobb, that simply wasn't going to happen.

Snipes went the limit with some pretty formidable opposition, and many consider his 12 rounder with Greg Page to be Page's peak performance. Alfredo Evangelista's greatest career win by far was via ten round SD over Snipes in Richfield, Ohio and after his retirement, Evangelista declared the broad shouldered and chiseled Snipes to be his strongest opponent.

Why didn't Renaldo get a title rematch with Larry? Well, from 1982 to 1984, he only went 1-4-1. Berbick was a good win, but he only drew with future Holmes challenger Scott Frank, then lost to Witherspoon and Page before taking a two year hiatus to 1986 when :Larry was no longer Champion. If he'd managed to rebound to 5-0-0 against the level of competition he faced by the end of 1983, he probably gets that return shot in 1984 (which, when combined with Bonecrusher, would've gotten him to 49-0 before the Jinx, and Holmes wanted to defend against Larry Frazier between Snipes and Cooney, getting him to 50-0, in which case Michael Spinks wouldn't have gotten to him before he retired).

Mr. Snipes just couldn't recover well after facing Holmes (who let's face it, was as dominant against Snipes as he was against Shavers, aside from the KDs Earnie and Renaldo scored on him).

 

I think at most the ref could have let Renaldo take one or two more shots.

IIRC, Snipes was looking straight down at the canvas and that had something to do with the stoppage — you only do that if you’re out of it and can’t focus to remember there’s a guy in front of you trying to take your head off.

As a fellow trainer used to tell fighters who would look toward the canvas: “There ain’t no dimes down there … look at your opponent!”

FWIW, my brother is a huge Renaldo fan (he has some odd choices and he likes awkward guys) and he agrees it was a justified stoppage — maybe not a ‘good’ stoppage but justified.

 

He sometimes looked as if he was trying to wave away a swarm of insects with his arms.

Didn't take a single forward step against a badly overweight EMM, and seemingly appeared utterly harmless until that double jab-right hand bomb which put Larry down and knocked him silly. Later, Snipes decked the durable Berbick with that same right, en route to the decision win.

Prior to Snipes-Cummings, Ferdie Pacheco got each before the camera to point out the differences between Jumbo's weight trained physique and Renaldo's boxing developed physique. (In particular, he showed the trapezius development of Cummings when he had Jumbo turn his back to the camera, and discussed how this muscular development could work as shock absorption, enabling Jumbo to withstand head shots better. In fact, Cummings did prove to be a tough customer, and only the deadly punching Jeff Sims and Frank Bruno were ever able to stop him. Snipes had good boxing training developed trapezoid musculature himself. That's a part of the anatomy Lorenzo Zanon might've benefited greatly from building up. As well conditioned as Zanon was, he simply couldn't take a hard shot to the chops.)

 

I find Zanon fascinating. Gave people fits … until he got hit. But it wasn’t as easy to hit him clean as it must have looked, and he had sneaky fast hands to go with a very awkward style. Hard to time.

 

It was a bit premature for sure but it didn't matter. It was one way traffic that wasn't going to change.

 

I agree with what appears to be the consensus opinion here, it was premature but it didn't matter because Larry was going to stop him.

 

Good arguments on either side. I think it was justifiable given that Snipes was tiring, getting pummeled, going back to the ropes/corner, and a very big right landed flush, and the way Snipes reacted with his head going down I think made the referee think he was done. Could he have allowed another punch or two? Yes. But was the stopppage within the zone of acceptability? Yes. Would we like to see him allow Holmes to put him down? Yes. But could that have been harmful to Snipes’ health? Maybe so. We only think badly about it based on how Snipes reacted after the stop. Judge it before his reaction. He might not have been able to react that way had the referee allowed Holmes to continue hitting him.

 

Ron Lyle also protested Ali's stoppage of him in their 1975 title bout, but in that one, Ali battered him from ring post to ring post, unloading around 46 punches Lyle didn't even attempt to answer, so referee Ferd Hernandez rightly stopped it with nearly two minutes to go in round 11.

Negative reactions after a stoppage cab be misleading. After a stoppage like that, it's easy for the vanquished to protest when blows are no longer raining down on them.

What both Snipes and Lyle failed to do was buy time and a moment of respite via clinches. But neither Holmes or Ali were the clinch susceptible and much shorter Mike Tyson or Joe Frazier, Both the GOAT and Assassin could finish people from long range, and were excellent at not expending themselves when they went after the kill. (With Lyle, Ali took a couple steps back and began sharpshooting left hooks and straight rights. This is how a ninth round between Ali and Foreman might have looked, with Big George foundering like a beached whale under a steady and controlled barrage from Muhammad until Zach Clayton either stopped it or George got counted out, probably the latter.)

 

Yes a little fast to jump in there.
Holmes was definitely hurt more, just think how history changes if the ref jumped in there?

 

Snipes made a fatal mistake. He stood over Larry with his arms upraised, causing referee Rudy Ortega to have to escort him to the farthest corner, so Ortega's back was turned when Holmes got up and stumbled face first into the near corner, a situation where if he hadn't hit the corner, he'd have fallen down a second time. We'll never know how Ortega would've responded if he'd seen what happened immediately after Larry got up in four seconds.

Renaldo's own fault, but today he certainly enjoys good smokes in cigar lounges, no doubt sporting an array of dedicated and stylish coutures. (No longer with impressive physique though like the inherited one Mike Weaver retains.)

 

It was a bit premature yes but I don't think it would kf any difference to the outcome Holmes was in control and well on stop and would've stopped his man regardless.