Holmes vs Tyson

No actually.

Larry was flat footed and had no power to hurt Tyson. Holmes's defensive flaws were appearent. Without his quick legs to bail him out, Larry was extremely hittable even in his prime. Tyson was just taking his time, setting it up and waiting for just the perfect moment. Holmes was just doing enough to survive.

So not competitive for me. A mismatch at this point.

 

Yup.

 

I agree. For someone who was supposedly immune to the left hook, he was sure getting nailed with an abundance of them by Weaver.

 

I will add that Tyson could have finished him in round 2 if he went for it early. Possibly even in round 1. However, this version of Mike was extremely smart and patient and had enough respect for a great former champion to take his time.

 

Tyson was as good as he ever was.

 

I think the Holmes of 1981 against 1988 Tyson would have been an epic matchup. With Holmes moving well and shooting that stinging jab in Mike's face, the outcome is very much in doubt. If I had to pick, I would probably take Mike -- but with a lot of uncertainty.

 

Tyson never looked like he was going to lose this fight.

 

Looked mostly like Holmes was just trying to not get knocked out. Wasn't competitive.

About the worst Holmes has looked.

 

Larry was using the only thing he had at this point , experience , guile and savvy . His timing was awful and when he threw his right it looked forced not a natural reflexive punch ,you could see his long layoff was affecting him . If he could have landed his righthand it may have went longer but this version of Holmes didn't have a chance.

 

That Holmes stops Mike in 10. 1980 Holmes was quite obviously better than Buster Douglas. No excuses. Jab jab jab, try a right, hold the rushes. It works against Mike, and Larry had the uppercut to keep him off him. The uppercut would have been the beginning of Mike's end imo. By the 8th or 9th he'd really be showing the accumulation of jabs and overhand potshots.

Sure, Larry was 38...but he lost and then ended up coming back a few years later and not doing bad at all, really. It's true, he was ring rusty as hell for Mike (and Mike stayed up all night with Asian hookers, that's why he lost the Buster fight...right?). And I think Larry was a little scared, and it showed a couple of times in that ring with Iron Mike.

The bottom line is, it was Mike's day, and the fact that Holmes came back to fight a respectable fight against a young, nearly-prime Evander Holyfield tends to add to the weight of Mike's victory that day imo.

I'll try to be clearer:

Mike said "I didn't beat the great Larry Holmes, that guy would have beaten me"....I agree, Mike. However, after the fight Larry would go on to make Ray Mercer look amateurish; plus, he not only lasted the distance but had a better than decent first 7 rounds against the guy who kicked the crap out of Mike in their first fight, and nearly beat the guy who knocked Lennox Lewis out...still sounds like a Great in that sense.

Larry was far from a joke at 38, he just wasn't even the same man who fought Carl Williams. That said, he didn't do abominably against Mike. I mean, we're not talking Spinks or Williams.

 

For me Tyson beats any version of Holmes and I love Holmes as a fighter.

Cus D'amato specifically trained Tyson to beat Holmes by countering over his jab with the right hand which is what happened in their actual fight.

Holmes was a great champion but he could be vulnerable, Holmes survived some pretty sticky moments in his career. But I'm not sure he could survive those same type of moments vs a great finisher like Tyson.

Shavers basically had Holmes out in that 7th round but couldn't land another punch to finish it off due to being too wild kind of like Wilder vs Fury.

I kind of feel the same way about Fury if he got in trouble vs a clinical finisher he could be stopped.

 

Even a prime Holmes I’d bet would lose to any half decent version of Tyson. Ruddock, post prison Tyson etc doesn’t matter. That overhand right will always land and that will be it for Larry cos Tyson won’t let him off the hook.

Holmes effort in 88 was pretty poor I thought. He wasn’t finished at 38 and if f Sheridan didn’t mention it every other second you wouldn’t have known Holmes was too much past it. For an ATG fighter he should’ve done better. He sort of just fell into the many cute boxers Tyson wasted without trouble. Moving straight back, pawing the jab, no physical presence, can’t get Tyson’s respect, getting caught stiff and upright flush etc. Bruno, Holmes, Berbick and the like. Speaks levels to how good Tyson was though. I’ve heard Holmes said he was scared of Tyson in his book, which doesn’t surprise me.

IMO Holmes’ big problem was that he was such a light hitter and had no physical presence against Tyson. I was watching the Tyson-Holyfield fight the other day and it was noticeable how much harder he was punching than Holmes and how much more physical he got with Tyson.

Fwiw I’m a Holmes fan

 

Smartest fight by Mike and he stuck to a gameplan. He landed those right hands to the body and then came up over the top and nailed Holmes with clean right hands. And he also did it at the beginning of the round and not with 30 seconds to kill like other Holmes opponents. But those body shots set up everything.

And Holmes no longer had that straight right hand. It was looping by that point in time. Never had a left hook so all he had was footwork and a jab to keep Tyson away. And that was never going to be enough.

One thing seldom mentioned about Tyson back then was how quick his feet were. At least for the first 4 or 5 rounds anyway. But he could close that distance incredibly fast and had the balance to throw punches while doing it. And worse for opponents is that then Tyson was in range for his follow up hooks and uppercuts and combos.

 

I have to respectfully disagree.

Douglas was a more fluent and better combination puncher than Holmes. Douglas threw fluid combinations and timed his uppercut to perfection.

Holmes could throw an uppercut but his combo's were not as fluid as Buster and his uppercut was more telegraphed. In fact Holmes would often stick his jab out to measure his opponent and then throw an uppercut. This would be disastorous vs Tyson. Stick your jab out to measure him and he will nail you with an overhand right and knock you down.

Frankly i never saw prime Holmes throw combinations as well as Buster. Holmes was a very basic and predictable combination puncher. Douglas was not since he threw fast and powerful combos and mixed in his uppercuts rather unpredictably.