Holmes's comp... How highly do you rate it?

True.
I'd probably say Norton was his best win, but it could be Witherspoon.
On the other hand, most heavyweight champions never beat anyone better than that.

I wouldn't rate Holmes below anyone who has come since. The Spinks fights do tarnish him a bit because Spinks wasn't even a heavyweight !

 

Nor I. I think he can reasonably rank somwhere around #4 or #5 on an all time heavyweight list.

 

Leon Spinks was the champion when the WBC stripped him and awarded the title to Norton.

Norton was the WBC champion when Holmes beat him in June 1978.

Ali beat Spinks in September 1978 to reclaim the WBA (and WORLD) title.

Ali's next fight came against Holmes.

Again, Ali and Norton weren't champs at the same time. Apparently, you aren't as well-versed as you think you are.

 

Again, this topic is on Holmes' competition ... NOT HIS BEST WIN.

 

Larry Holmes had reasonably respectable wins over:

- Ken Norton
- Earnie Shavers
- Gerry C00ney
- Mike Weaver
- Trevor Berbick
- Roy Williams
- Carl Williams
- Tim Witherspoon
- Renaldo Snipes
- Ray Mercer
- Leroy Jones

He had some less than stellar wins over

- Alfredo Evangelista
- Lucien Rodriguez
- Scott Ledoux
- Muhammad Ali
- Leon Spinks
- Marvis Frazier
- David Bey
- Tex Cobb
- James Smith
- Lorenzo Zannon
- Scott Frank

He was possibly robbed against

- Michael Spinks ( rematch )
- Brian Nelson
- Oliver McCall

 

How the hell does fighting the 1988 version of Mike Tyson "depreciate" Holmes' resume?

This topic is on Holmes' competition ... and how HIGHLY you rate it ... not his best wins.

When was Tyson BETTER than in 1988?

And what version of Chris Byrd was better than the 1988 version of Tyson?

atsch This thread is unbelievable.

 

Yeah I know all this thanks, but it still doesn't address the point I raised.

 

A vitali opponent better than mike Tyson? older fighter facing a prime is a blemish for the older fighter?

let me explain. hes a kliturd.

 

Well, I bought a ticket to the Holmes-Ali closed circuit and remember the build-up and what was at stake quite well.

Most people who discuss it on boards just regurgitate what they read or watch the fight and say Ali sucked in that fight ... so we'll just forget that one.

As for who Ali would've beaten in 1980 ... before he started popping Thyrolar's like they were candy to boost his metabolism because they made him cut weight and gain power ... until they didn't anymore ...
I'd say that considering Ali had wins over many of the top contenders in 1979/80 like Shavers, Norton, Spinks, and had spanked LeDoux (another contender) in an exhibition ... he'd have been able to beat quite a few.

If Ali vs. Tate - which was scheduled for June 1980 - had come off, I think he very well could've won. Regardless, if he'd lost to Tate, the lineage would've gone with Tate and not Holmes.

Holmes beating Ali to become the lineal champ was huge. Ali sabotaged himself in that fight. I don't hold it against Holmes. He didn't stuff Ali's mouth with PEDs.

 

It doesn't depreciate his resume but nor does it enhance it.. Lennox Lewis could come back to boxing tomorrow, step in the ring with Wladimir Klitscko, get knocked out in two rounds and it won't do anything to hurt Lennox but nor help him. And it won't ad anything to Klits' resume either just as beating a shot Ali did nothing for Holmes.

 

His competition was about average or what you'd expect it to be.
I mean, of the few heavyweight champions with 15 or 20 defences or more, they all faced similar number of stiffs and bums.

 

Agreed,

Unless a dominant champion came around in either the 70's or the 90's and remained undefeated it would have been virtually impossible to compile a 20 title fight win streak with all stellar opponents. And even then it would be close to impossible as virtually no one survived the dawn of those eras without picking up a loss or two.

 

Overall, I'd give him a "C"

Only beat one top 10 guy to get his title shot against Norton. That was Shavers in 1978. Actually, Shavers and Norton were two of his best overall wins. After the Shavers (second fight) and Weaver scares, his level of competition dropped significantly. In the period of 1980-1983 his best opponents were a come backing but undersized Leon Spinks, a limited Snipes, an overranked, overhyped ****ey and a
mostly unproven Witherspoon, although he had just barely edged Snipes. After the Witherspoon scare, his level of competition dropped again as she seemed to want to milk what time he had left as much as possible in an attempt to catch Marciano's 49-0. James Smith was very limited, but had just beat Bruno, so that was a great choice of opponent. Bey had edged an underachieving Page, but was very limited, so another good choice. Williams was skilled but green. Holmes almost lost that one. Spinks was a great Light heavyweight, but had never fought at heavyweight, so that seemed safe. Wrong.

Prime Dokes, Page, Tubbs, Thomas were bypassed. Witherspoon also warranted a rematch because that fight was very close. Holmes probably knew he would only get better, so wisely didn't go that route. There was talk of a unification with WBA champ Gerrie Coetzee that fell through. That would have been a decent win.

I have to give Holmes credit, though. He didn't let King control him. King was salivating at trying to get one of his young guys to dethrone Holmes, but Holmes was too smart to let it happen. Giving up the WBC title and being handed the IBF title was perfect for him. He still had his name, and could use it to pretty much handpick his competition as IBF Champion, while avoiding King's guys.

I won't even go into his post Championship competition, but the Mercer win was a surprise, but mostly showed how limited Mercer was.

 

Lennox Lewis has been retired for 12 godd*mn years. atsch:roll:

That's your example?

If Wlad knocked out Lennox TWO YEARS after Lewis fought Vitali, you don't think that would've enhanced Wlad's resume and people wouldn't add Wlad to the list of TOP OPPONENTS LEWIS faced?

Are you insane?

This thread is about how highly you rate his competition.

Fighting a prime Mike Tyson at his very best is about the "best" competition you could ever get.

Does anyone in this thread know how to read?

Did you watch Tyson fight in 1988? Think he was kinda good? Think he'd be viewed as tough competition ... or does fighting him "depreciate" the quality overall of the men you faced?

I'm about to give up on all of you.:hi:

 

it would add a little because lewis was so damn good. but not much if LL had been inactive for 2 years with a pot belly.

2 years out, at age 40, is often massively detrimental.