Holyfield 5th title

haha, o face is hilarious, but also he would become only man in history to be 5x world champ, and top of cruiser titles coupled with the fact that he will be 44 yrs old is quite an accomplishment. No matter what excuses are attached to the fights or fighters a win, a loss, or a draw whats on the record is on the record.

 

What Holyfield did at Cruiserweight has absolutely NO BEARING on his all time Heavyweight standing. Technically? Lewis beat him twice, end of argument. And no, Lewis has the much steeper competition on his resume when we isolate Holyfields career at Heavy. Lewis fought almost every top contender that came along....and beat them.

 

OH, here you go again with this bull**** :rofl :rofl :rofl You are worse than the Margarita cheerleading squad when they were trying to put Margo on the level of Hagler Yeah he fought Bowe in his Prime....and lost twice!!!!! And Bowe is only a top guy of the era because he beat Holyfield. Really, what else did Bowe do to merit such a standing??? And the only fight Holyfield won against Bowe...in his career defining trilogy was interrupted by ****ing fan man while the momentum was favoring Bowe. And a "Post Prison" Tyson was not when it MATTERED!

 

So how does all that suggest that Lewis is "pretty far ahead" ? :huh

Looks about level to me. It could be said that Lewis was a better judge of when to retire to make his win-loss balance most impressive.

Also, there are probably other wins that could be included on the resumes of both men. Some of the choices are odd (Botha for example, he's not a better name than lots of guys who you dont include on Holy's resume.).
Buster Douglas was "woefully out of shape" as much as David Tua was, but he had size advantages over Evander. I think that win gets played down too much. Douglas was a decent fighter.

A couple of Holyfield's losses are disputable, and most of them happened after Holyfield's 36th birthday (the same age Muhammad Ali starting losing to guys like Leon Spinks).
Actually he was 38-42 when he lost to Ruiz, Byrd, Toney and Donald.

It's a close call between Lewis and Holyfield, there's no huge gap between them.

 

Booker?

As far as I'm concerned, the Ruiz trilogy does count on Holyfield's legacy, but there comes a point where once a fighter is past his prime, shortcomings can be overlooked and accomplishments can be magnified. Reason being: we don't hold it against someone who loses significantly past his prime if it doesn't look like a true reflection of his reign, but an accomplishment siginficantly past prime can be a sign of how special someone was. Another thing to consider is how long the prime lasts; that is, sometimes we DO hold losses past prime against a fighter if their prime was so short (Tyson could be an example... a very debatable example I admit).

I'm not sure if I'd put Holyfield ahead of Lewis should he beat Ibragimov, but depending how he looks, it's something I'd have to consider.

 

My bad. NOt Booker, Donald. I see your points. but you also have to take into consideration that he is still the same fighter that lost to those guys...only older and more diminished now. So any "title-holder" that loses to him cannot be that great a mark on anyone's resume :deal

 

Of course it does, how could you even say that? The fact that he was the undisputed cruiserweight champ, to then move up and become the undisputed HW champ absolutely means something, you cant discredit his accomplishments just cause you think they dont matter.

In 1999 he officially lost to Lewis and clearly Holy had seen his better days behind him. And like i said if Tarver beat Jones 2x does that mean Tarver is higher that him All time? The answer again is no.

 

No it doesn't.!!!! When ranking all-time HEAVYWEIGHTS you should only look at what the fighter did at HEAVYWEIGHT!!!!!

 

You cant knock what Holyfield has been able to do, when you stack Lewis and Holyfield up, Evander has fought the fresher versions of Tyson and of Mercer and Holyfield beat Mercer far more convincingly than Lewis did.
if you want to knock the man for his losses to Ruiz Donald Byrd and Toney, what does this mean about Lewis's loss to Rahman? or McCall? Sure he did win rematches but lets be 100% truthfull, McCall was not mentally fit to fight the fight itself proves that.
his Rematch to Rahman was a great come back knock out for Lewis no doubt, but he still has that loss from the man as to where Holyfield beat Rahman when they fought.
you really cant use Lewis to discredit Holyfield, becuase his wins over Holyfield are really what stamped his legacy in the sport, so if you knock on Holyfield basicly your knocking on Lennox if you say Holyfield didnt do ****, then what does a Lewis win over Evander mean?

 

True but look at the weight that guys like Dempsey and Marciano carried as a HW its no different than Cruiser weight, so should we automaticly say those guys were Cruisers and did nothing at HW? I didnt think so.

 

Holyfield is claiming that shoulder problems significantly hindered him around the Byrd/Toney/Donald fights. I'm not willing to accept that just yet because even though he's looked much better since last year, Savarese and Maddalone are not in the leagues of Byrd and Donald at the times he fought them. Having said that, Holyfield does seem to have an extra kick in his step of late.

I'm not as high on Ibragimov as some here are. I'd put the 2007 Sultan below the 2002 Byrd and 2003 Toney (maybe) but above the 2004 Donald. If Holyfield looks great against Sultan, it may come down to how good Sultan looks over the next few years before we get an idea of how significant that win was.

Again, this is all under the assumption that Holyfield wins... which is not a given by any stretch.

 

I am not knocking Holyfield for his losses against Toney and Donald and Ruiz. I knock Holyfield down the rankings for his losses to Bowe and Moorer...which he got beaten (not caught on the button by a singler shot, but beaten) 3 times.....in his Prime.

Didn't Lewis like beat Mercer a year after Holyfield? Not that much fresher.

Just look at how many more dangerous, young, hungry heavyweights Lewis fought and beat then Holyfield.

 

Fair enough.

 

Lewis beat up holyfield twice.
End of thread.

 

Name those young dangerous fighters Lewis faced? Seriously!
and yeah Holyfield did lose three times in his prime, However there were medical issues that took place during the Moorer fight, that left Holyfield suspended from the sport for a short period of time.
either way I would like to see that list of more dangerous fighters that Lewis beat. Lewis ducked Ruiz, While Holyfield fought the man three times, Lewis Ducked Byrd while Evander took that fight.
Holyfield has fought anybody and everybody that you cant deny