HOLYFIELD AGAINST FOREMAN OF THE LYLE FIGHT?

Foreman definitely lost something post Ali until his first retirement. Foremost i think was the loss of the "invincibility" tag, both in his own mind and that of fans and opponents. He started making changes, doubting himself and then he was suddenly gone.

Holyfield wouldn't war with Foreman. He would have felt his sheer strength and power and boxed. I think the Holyfield of the Douglas fight would be a chance of beating post Ali George.

 

Oddly enough, Holyfield. If ever there were fight to serve as an experiment on how much of a difference psychological state can possibly make, this might be it.

Against 1973 George, Holyfield probably doesn't do much better than Norton. Ko 5.

 

I'd take Holyfield of the Tyson fight to beat Foreman of the Lyle fight. Holyfield was too skilled, too quick, and he had better stamina than Foreman. Holyfield wouldn't be giving up a lot of weight either, he weighed 215 pounds for the first Tyson fight, and Foreman was 226 for the Lyle fight. 1991 Foreman was not as big and strong as the Foreman that Holyfield fought. Holyfield handled Foreman convincingly in 91 although he was outweighed by over 50 pounds. Foreman's defense was not as good in 1976 as it was in 1991, and he fought tense causing him to fatigue as the fight progressed.

 

Foreman by ko.

 

Holyfield always does much better than Norton. That's not to say Evander was much better than Ken, just that he wasn't scared of big punchers so he can execute his game plan. That means extending George into the later rounds where his better stamina, more economical output and greater mental strength would make him a very live underdog.

Ken would never have been a live underdog against George once he felt the power; George was Norton's boogieman and Kenny would always look like dead man walking. Holyfield would never have felt he was an underdog vs anyone. 1974 Foreman would not have dented that self belief and his performance would reflect that.

 

George executes Evander inside 4

 

I don't see it. Evander was no overweight half blind overweight part time singer like Frazier was in 73. Nor was he a deer in headlights like Norton. And he certainly was no Jose Roman.

I think early George gets romanticised a bit. Bear in mind for all his dominance over Joe, he never looked like keeping him down. He could be outboxed, outthought, outlasted; there was a lot for a confident master boxer like Holyfield to work with. I don't see any version of Foreman blasting Evander out in 4. And certainly not the one who fought Lyle who I think Holyfield beats handily.

 

Holyfield stops a gassed Foreman late on

 

He wasn't strong enough at that stage imo when he fought douglas. He bulked up and become more cute and well rounded. I actually think Douglas Holy tries to brawl if hurt against foreman. Holyfield that fought Tyson would be ready imo for any Foreman.

 

"73 foreman would wreck the real deal, I'm certain of it. Holyfield would be hurt early, try to blast back and be promptly knocked on to the canvas."

Yep. The foreman of 1973 is far superior to the middle-aged overweight version Holyfield faced. Arguments to the contrary are invariably nonsensical.

"But old Foreman suddenly learned to box! He crossed his arms and fought at a much slower pace."

About this unmitigated nonsense that young Foreman had a poor defense:
Although he was no Ali or Jack Johnson, his defense was very far from poor. I strongly suspect the perception of most people who say this is based on little or nothing more than the fact that Foreman made frequent use of the somewhat arcane technique of glove blocking (with the palms out like catcher's mits) and this looks awkward to those who aren't used to seeing it.

Tell me, how many clean shots did Norton manage to get in?

 

Norton was petrified, he was scared to punch !

 

Ali had no trouble landing and, more importantly to this thread, nor did Lyle.

 

Ali was Ali, a special case in almost any context. I began by agreeing that Holyfield would probably beat the Foreman who fought Lyle, but to say Lyle had "no trouble" landing is misleading at best, for reasons I doubt you need explained to you.