I'm starting to grow my appreciation of Holy and his fighting skills. He was fairly complete and his chin seemed to compensate his not too great defensive skills. He was big enough to compete with the superheavyweights but small enough to maintain the speed and mobility of the cruiser weight guys. I had him drawing the rematch with Bowe upon most recent viewing (had it a holy victory first time I saw it) and losing the rematch with Lewis 7-5. I also had him nicking the Moorer fight by a point. But take a prime holy (however you wanna define him) against prime versions of the following and how well do you think he does? Wlad Vitali Lewis Tyson Holmes Foreman Ali Marciano Dempsey Johnson How well do you think he does? I'll post a poll for the record you think he'd achieve in one off fights with these guys.
I think Holyfield is one of the guys I rank higher H2H than I do overall (although he is top 10 for me there as well.). I was one of those hoping he would fight Tyson after the Dokes fight, but it never came off....and then later Tyson pulled out and then was supposed to fight him after buster...but we all know how that went down..I always felt that Holy had his number even years before they met. This content is protected - I think this would be a super close fight, but one that Holy would nip 7-5 for me although a draw/SD type of outcome wouldn't surprise me either. This content is protected - In spite of Vitali's stellar rounds won record that mendoza is always droning on about, I don't think his skill level has ever wowwed me like wlad's (words I never thought I would utter)..and Holy takes this one 8-4 This content is protected - Again I think Holy was durable enough to hang w/ lewis and quick/skilled enough to hold his own w/ Lennox and like him 7-5 This content is protected - Holyfield stops him in the 10th This content is protected - I am going against my other picks and like Holmes to take a nice decision 8-4 or so in this one. This content is protected - I like Holyfield to withstand the power of George, and take a solid 8-4 decision This content is protected - I am not the typical Ali picker who picks him against everyone else (there are a few I pick to beat him Frazier, Norton, Holmes, Marciano), but I do like him against Holyfield either 7-5 or 9-6 depending upon rounds. This content is protected - I have a hard time with Holy/Frazier/Marciano in any fight and my first inkling is draw, but since that is not a vote option....I like Holy over 12 and rocky over 15. This content is protected - I like Holyfield to take a decision in this one (no not because he is black, seamus), but it might be closer than some will agree with. Holy 7-5 This content is protected - Wow this a tough one for me as I can see both guys winning it....feeling the need to fall off of the fence I will take Johnson by a narrow margin. So 6-3-1 for me...either 6-4 or 7-3 depending upon how I decide to vote the Marciano fight.
Wlad- Holyfield would exploit his predictable 1-2 attack in a matter of rounds and Wlads low level of punch resistance on top of poor stamina getting sucked out every minute of every round would lead to a mid fight tko. Vitali- This would be mostly fought on the inside with Holyfield racking up the points to a UD win. His record is so **** that its difficult to judge how he does h2h. Lewis- Faster, sharper, fitter Evander scores a UD win. Holmes- Young Holmes has the legs to outbox Holyfield to a MD Tyson- Tyson's speed, power and explosiveness is far too much for his weak defence and knocks him out mid- late rounds. Marciano- Rock lessens the pop of his punches even more with brutal body shots and beats him down to a late tko or UD victory. Ali- Ali points win.
Wlad - holyfield by ko, i think wlad could outbox holyfield better than any other with his saftey first style, but he isnt going to keep holyfields accurate combinations of him all night. Vitali - holyfield decision/possible cuts stoppage, this would be a great match, however if lewis could out brawl vitali, then holyfield certainly could. Lewis - lewis very close decision, although anything less from lewis's best could mean a holufield ko or decision, and wouldnt suprise me if holyfield won Tyson - holyfield decison, could take his shots and dish some back, much better than mike 5+ rounds Holmes - holmes close decision, better boxer and could fight decently, not to metion IMO the best heavyweight jab, Foreman - holyfield decision, much better stamina, and could pull a stopage against a tired foreman Ali - ali decision, would trouble holyfield with his movement, jab and combos, but holy will have his moments Marciano - holyfield close decision, rocky is a legend and exeptional fro his times, but a bit to small to trouble holyfield, but that work rate would win him some rounds, might favour rocky over 15 Dempsey - holyfield comfortable decision Johnson - gonna say holyfield decision usually dont rate many old timers H2H btw
He's an absolute phenomenon, easily the most underrated HW around here. Perhaps the best stamina in HW history, and 1 of the best technicians, people forget he didn't lose until he was, what 32? And past his best Wlad - Holyfield's pressure could win him it or Wlad wins with his jab 50-50 Vitali - Holyfield would work his way inside where Vitali is technically vunerable. Vitali would win rounds with his jab, Holyfield is more athletic in his prime though Holy UD Lewis - Lennox had a competitive fight, could go either way with a Holyfield with much more stamina but lean towards Lennox by a fraction - Lennox SD Tyson - he beat him didn't he? Prime for prime is closer but I have to go with Holyfield Holmes - 50-50, Holmes jab and speed could come out on top or Holyfield's workrate down the stretch Foreman - Holyfield is too skilled for Foreman Ali - close fight but Ali UD Marciano - Holyfield is quicker, longer/taller/heavier, and more skilled. Holy UD Dempsey - if you can beat Tyson, you beat Dempsey easier Johnson - too much workrate for Johnson Overall 2 losses and 2 50-50s, make it 6-7 wins out of 10
Just rewatched him against Bowe in the rematch and had him winning. Also rewatched him against Moorer and had him losing :think
Holyfield is painful to rank H2H as he didn't have a 'prime' IMO. The smaller, faster HW version was so sharp, for example when he blasted Buster The Blob. But could anyone do one better than Cooper? And his first loss was to Bowe so again, not infallible (who is) When he beat Tyson he had packed on the weight, he was stronger and canny, but he was slower of hand and foot. I think his best performance and win is Bowe II, but it's marred. It took him two attempts to beat Moorer, he fell to pieces against Blwe in the 3rd fight. He was 'roiding his tits off. I rank him very, very highly for all-round ability but he never had all these attributes at the same time. I find it hard to rank him in this respect but I'll take the younger Holy, big enough, quick enough, varied enough, resilient enough. And it's the Holy of the first Bowe fight, a losing effort, that I come up with. Anyone agree that Evander's 'prime' is hard to discern for these reasons?
I have his prime from the qawi rematch to the bowe rematch. Moorer was definitely the end of his prime by any measure.
Yeah but you said 'against these greats' I thought must've misread. That's my point though. Was he past his best against Moorer? Bowe III you'd have thought so. But then he beat Moorer, did the unthinkable against Tyson (at the time it was, I remember) and even came back to give Lewis hassle after he'd been beaten by him. He was a different shape after a while. A different fighter essentially. That's my point, which one do you take? Each one has attributes they can bring in to different fights IMO. Anyway, he was 'roiding his nut off I'm sure but he was on the decline (I do agree with that) and a fair few monsters of the time may well have been. I also love Evander to bits so give him as much leeway as I possibly can
His prime seems fairly obvious to me; he looked at his best at cruiserweight (especially towards the end of his reign) & his early HW career, 1987-1991 were his peak years imo.
I'd say he was already slowing down a bit by the time he fought Bowe. Yes. Younger Hopkins vs Older Hopkins. Or something like that.