Holyfield or Usyk? Who is greater?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Thesenuts, Mar 13, 2023.



?

  1. Holyfield

  2. Usyk

  3. Holyfield for now, but Usyk will be greater if he defeats Fury

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,243
    15,933
    Jun 25, 2014
    What? Basically cruiserweights?o_O

    Valuev was seven feet tall and 310 pounds. He made Fury look like a dwarf. And Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Hasim Rahman, Ray Mercer, Pinklon Thomas, Buster Douglas, Lou Savarese, etc. weren't "basically" cruiserweights. Most were 30, 40, 50, 60 pounds over the cruiserweight limit.

    Your post makes absolutely zero sense.

    Who knew Nicolai Valuev, Lennox Lewis and George Foreman were "basically" cruiserweights?

    Too bad they weren't fighting today ... maybe Valuev and Foreman could've challenged for Badou Jack's cruiserweight belt?:hang
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
    sasto, Dynamicpuncher and Rumsfeld like this.
  2. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,863
    1,031
    Nov 23, 2014
    Many of the top heavyweights of Holyfield's era could make cruiserweight with early weigh ins including Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, etc. Tyson is no bigger than some of todays cruiserweights.

    Holyfield wasn't facing the size discrepancy that Usyk is.
     
  3. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

    67,675
    30,609
    Jan 22, 2015
    Holyfield faced off with some really big guys so your statement isnt true. Lets not forget he was going to fight Akinwande as well, another big Heavyweight.
     
    sasto likes this.
  4. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,863
    1,031
    Nov 23, 2014
    With the exception of Lewis I don't see any of the big guys he fought as being anywhere near as capable as Fury or Klitschko. And many could make cruiserweight given we routinely see guys rehydrate 20 pounds. Tyson, Dokes, Moorer, Mercer, prime Holmes could all make cruiserweight without much difficulty. Guys that size routinely fight at cruiserweight these days.
     
  5. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

    67,675
    30,609
    Jan 22, 2015
    As another poster pointed out, that Valuev was 7 foot tall, theres no guys boxing today thats as big as Valuev was, not even Fury.
     
    sasto likes this.
  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,863
    1,031
    Nov 23, 2014
    Klitschko and Fury have ability and athleticism to go with their size. Moreover when Holyfield moved up in 1988 Valuev wasn't a factor. Valuev wasn't around during Holyfield's prime anyway.
     
  7. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

    67,675
    30,609
    Jan 22, 2015
    Oh i see what your talking about, youre saying through Holyfield prime years, basically pre tyson that he never faced anybody the size of a Tyson Fury?
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,243
    15,933
    Jun 25, 2014
    You can go to boxrec and see Usyk hasn't given up nearly as much weight to opponents as Holyfield did. And Holyfield did it for decades.

    Usyk has done it for THREE opponents so far.
     
    sasto likes this.
  9. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,863
    1,031
    Nov 23, 2014
    Had Usyk campaigned exclusively at heavyweight he would have been giving away a lot more size than Holyfield did in his prime. With a few exceptions Holyfield's top opponents during his prime were around the same size he was.

    Moreover at cruiserweight plenty of guys enter the ring well over 200 pounds. You really think Usyk enters the ring as heavy as Okolie for example?
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,243
    15,933
    Jun 25, 2014
    Usyk didn't campaign exclusively at heavyweight, so don't act like he gave up all this weight when he didn't actually do it.

    You don't get credit for what you didn't do.

    Usyk gave up weight to Derek Chisora, Chazz Witherspoon and Anthony Joshua.

    Holyfield gave up:
    * 96 pounds to Valuev,
    * 50 pounds to Foreman
    * 40 pounds to Buster Douglas
    * 30 pounds to Riddick Bowe (three times)
    * 30 pounds Lennox Lewis (twice),
    * 30 pounds to Lou Savarese,
    * 30 pounds to Sherman Williams,
    * 30 pounds to Frans Botha,
    * 20 pounds to Ray Mercer,
    * 20 pounds to Alex Stewart,
    * 20 pounds to Larry Holmes,
    * 20 pounds to Michael Dokes,
    * 20 pounds to Adilson Rodriquea

    .... and on and on and on, year after year.

    While Usyk made sure the vast majority of his opponents were within a pound or less than him at cruiser.

    And the heavyweights of the 1990s and early 2000s weren't 'basically cruiserweights.'

    That's asinine. Truly.
     
    sasto, Dynamicpuncher and Rumsfeld like this.
  11. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,761
    4,547
    Jul 11, 2017
    Usyk beating Belly has nothing to do with this as Fury would almost certainly beat Holyfield, who got KO'd by a fat middleweight.

    Usyk would beat Holyfield, especially if he had the same PEDs.
    Usyk would never get KO'd by a fat middleweight either.
    Usyk would likely handle Lewis also, who is overrated and a lot sloppier than Joshua, also with a worse chin. Joshua has never been one-punched like Lewis, except by Pricey, who could one-punch plenty back then.
     
  12. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,513
    15,446
    Jan 14, 2022
    Tyson was 190 pounds at 14 years old and your telling me he was a Cruiserweight what ?

    Mercer won an Olympic gold medal at "Heavyweight". In his most well known fights he fought at 220 vs Cooper, 225 vs Morrison, 224 vs Holyfield, 238 vs Lewis.

    Michael Moorer was starving himself at Light Heavyweight, when he debuted at Heavyweight he weighed "213 pounds" which shows he was comfortably a Heavyweight.

    Foreman, Lewis, Bowe, Douglas, were all Super Heavyweights aswell who were just as a big Joshua.

    What your saying makes no sense.
     
    Rumsfeld and sasto like this.
  13. Jennifer Love Hewitt

    Jennifer Love Hewitt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,708
    1,778
    Jul 19, 2004
    Holyfield and it is not even close.
    Holyfield fought nearly everybody. You look at Holyfield's opponents and it's like a who's who of 3 different eras. He may not have won all the time, but the wins he did have were better than the wins Usyk currently has.
     
    sasto likes this.
  14. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

    41,855
    2,991
    May 4, 2012
    Commander Vander no question.
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,863
    1,031
    Nov 23, 2014
    Except it isn't. Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, etc could all have made cruiserweight easily given fighters routinely rehydrate 20 pounds so someone who fights at 220 can make cruiser no problem. That includes Tyson whether you like it or not a well as a prime Holmes and even prime Foreman. And a lot of the bigger guys Holyfield fought were journeyman/gatekeeper class so I don't think beating them proves much.

    Pre-Lewis the only guys Holyfield fought close to world class I would say were considerably bigger than him were Foreman, Douglas, and Bowe. Foreman was old and losing to guys like Morrison at that stage, Douglas came into the fight horribly out of shape and seems to have basically quit. That doesn't seem like a really impressive list in my view.

    Holyfield faced other guys during that time that outweighed him but in those cases it seems like his opponents were simply carrying excess flab and I wouldn't classify them as significantly bigger.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023