How do you all feel that Evander got taken apart by a former middleweight champion who moved all the way up to his division and beat him, easy....? Yea, Evander was past his prime, but Toney wasn't far behind. Keep in mind James was a fat bowling ball. I'm sorry, when someone moves that far up in weight and you get schooled that badly... Same goes for Ruiz-Jones Louis spared himself the embarrassment by knocking Conn out.
It depends how you see it. I see it as a showdown of how good Toney really was. We say only good things about Mickey Walker moving up to HW even though he didn't have great wins there.
I agree, (that wasn't a put down on Toney for winning by the way). What I meant was, to me it was an example of how much more talented the lighter weight fighters are.
That fight was more about how shot Holyfield was more than anything. That's not to take anything away from Toney's performance but just imagine if the Holyfield of the early 90's would have been in the ring with Toney that night. Toney would be in trouble. Holyfield was in his 40's for God sake. Also, it's not like Toney jumped from middleweight to Heavyweight in a year. He had been at cruiserweight for awhile before he fought Holyfield.
I think terms like shot fighter get banded out way too much on here. When I think of a shot fighter I picture Ali covering up against Holmes and a defensless Pinky Thomas getting hammered by Tyson/Holyfield/Bowe come to mind. Guys who are just totally gone. Holyfield wasn’t shot beyond shot as such. He had 2 very dominant rounds to begin I remember. But he was a washed fighter. You could see the reactions and hand speed just weren’t there anymore. He couldn’t get off after a few rounds. And he took much worse body punishment against a supreme body puncher like Bowe in the first one. Credit to Toney though. I’m not really sure what you’re hinting at on the whole. Toney’s heavyweight credentials weren’t all that outside of this. And if it’s that Holyfield wasn’t much good then questions need to be asked of Tyson and Lewis who got a past it Holyfield in 4 times and bar the odd round here and there could never get a proper hold on the guy. Heck I had the Lewis Holyfield rematch a draw.
After 99 Holyfield was declining further. Ofc he was several yrs past prime then too. One of Toneys best performances and he was still past prime much higher than his better weights at that. We also have to keep in mind that Holyfield got schooled a fight b4 against Byrd. Would love separate books on either but there's a book called Dark Trade that covers them n a few other 90s greats I still needa dust off n read.
Holyfield vs Tyson was in 96'. Holyfield vs Toney was in 2003 when Holyfield was in his 40's. Holyfield was having major shoulder issues, couldn't throw combinations and more and most concerning was he couldn't get away from right hands anymore. He was the definition of a shot fighter in 2003.
Thx will definitely read! I know they say don't judge a book by its cover but love how Toney looks on it haha
Yeah at this point, I give many PRIME top middleweights a chance in beating Holyfield. He was THAT over the hill by than. Now Tony was over the hill as well, but he was no were near Holyfield in that regard sadly.
I came here to mention this regarding Holyfield’s shoulder problems. In fact, a part of me recalls that he was coming off a shoulder surgery, perhaps even a double shoulder surgery, or am I remembering incorrectly? For me, this fight shows both how far Holyfield had diminished by this point and how much potential Toney had at heavyweight when he was in tip top shape and fully focused. Sure, a prime Holyfield would have been a very different story for Toney, but I don’t like to take too much away from James for Holyfield being old because regardless, Toney showed undeniable skill and tactics that I believe would have been a handful for most at heavyweight.
Holyfield’s reflexes were definitely no match for a former outstanding middleweight. Both guys were past it but Toney, as a former middleweight with less wear & tear, was much sharper. Put him in with an actual middleweight & he probably would’ve looked a lot slower. So reflexes & speed go to Toney. Toney also possessed a great chin. He was hurt maybe two or three times ever? Holyfield couldn’t put the combos together that would’ve bothered Toney. One punch wouldn’t do it. Plus, Toney was always a slick defensive fighter. Great counter puncher. Holyfield not the greatest defensive fighter. Both guys were faded but Toney was faster, better defensively, & able to take a good punch.
Toney being a "middleweight" is getting overstated. It is impressive he was able to move up from MW to achieve success but some ppl talking about him like he wasn't a CW for several yrs b4 Holyfield lol.
Exactly! Toney was a 200 pound quarterback when he was in high school and had to cut weight hard to make 160 and 168. He fought exclusively at cruiserweight and heavyweight after losing to Griffin.
