Holyfield vs Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Feb 14, 2016.


  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    How do you see this matchup going?

    At their best both were about 190 pounds but feel free to bulk either up if you feel they'd perform better with added muscle.

    It just occurred to me I have Holyfield in my top 5 whilst Dempsey is in my top 15. So quite far apart but never considered how they matchup with each other.

    We know Holy can fight the type of fight Tunney used to beat Dempsey, but we also know Holy can fight the type of fight Firpo used to lose to Dempsey.

    As it stands my gut instinct is that Holy is too good for Jack but I'm no as convinced as I was this time ten minutes ago.
     
  2. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    I would give Dempsey a good chance against early 90s Holyfield. Holyfield was a great boxer but he liked to mix it up and I don't think his power/chin was much better than Dempseys. Can see it going either way, although Holyfield is capable of outboxing him if he fights the right fight.

    Mid 90s Holyfield is just too strong, powerful and durable for Dempsey.
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

    19,064
    20,539
    Jul 30, 2014
    Two of the toughest, fiercest competitors in heavyweight boxing right here.
    They're very similar in size, although Evander would outweigh Jack that would be more to do with muscle he bulked up on rather than natural size. Jack was bigger built then most seem to know.

    Similarly to Marciano he was a well built guy and I think they could both have weighed upwards of 200lb, but 190 was a more optimum size for guys who have to go 15 rounds or more old school. Most don't realize this.

    Another thing, Both "The Real Deal" and "The Manassa Mauler" love a fight even though they know how to box. Even when they're in with much bigger men both guys just can't resist going for broke when they smell blood, so this would be a great fight.

    In terms of tools they both have hand speed although I think Dempsey's short punching was better, not much in it there and they both have solid jaws. Power goes with Dempsey. Holyfield could hit, make no mistake, and made great use of his power, but he lacked that natural club-handed beast trait that allowed Dempsey to floor the likes of Willard and Firpo with almost every punch. Holyfield has slightly better footwork and Dempsey has the better head movement. Aggresive and offensive.

    I see both men charging out at the bell, Dempsey taking ring centre at first because that's how he was, few started as fast as Dempsey. He and Holyfield start s****ping and Holyfield gets caught by a left to the head along with some shorter shots to the body. The brawl for the first couple of rounds but Holyfield is taking more wear and tear. Dempsey's too quick toe to toe, one of the best inside fighters there ever was.
    Holyfield starts going all "Bowe II" with his flurries of movement and boxing. Holyfield finds his rhythm and takes some rounds but the draining shots he took inside early limit his mobility. Jack finds him time and time again and Holyfield gets that Warrior blood boiling again and starts to fight. He and Dempsey both land well but brawling is Jack's world and his stamina stands up better than Evander's. His in and out head movement and bob and weaving also see him taking less damage. Holyfield doesn't have enough left in the tank to steal the remaining rounds and Jack goes to town, but Evander's heart and conditioning keep him in for the distance. Jack Dempsey WUD15
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    Why do you feel Holy becomes too strong, powerful and durable?
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    I'd be interesting in a statistical ****ysis to show fighters who were prime during the 15 round and 12 round era and see how the average weight adjusted.

    As for the fight itself both were very gifted but didn't always fight the optimum fight. For instance if Holy fights Dempsey the way he fought Bowe first time round I'm not sure Holy sees the final bell.
     
  6. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    Holyfield bulked up over the course of the decade and by the time he fought Tyson, he was as strong as a bull. Tyson was surprised how strong he was.

    He also hit harder, he sat on his punches more and IMO I thought his improvement in power by Bowe III was clearly noticeable in contrast to their first fight.
     
  7. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,461
    348
    Jul 13, 2007
    I'd pick Holyfield in a war.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    But surely Dempsey could bulk up over the couse of a decade as well and improve his own strength, power and durability.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,959
    48,022
    Mar 21, 2007
    I think Dempsey would just out-speed him over 10 or 12. Hard to know what would happen late though isn't it? In a 20 round fight, say? Can't see these two doing twenty?
     
  10. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    I don't like to speculate. It is what it is.
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    Well if you think Holy is not too strong when they both weigh 190, but think Holy is too strong when he adds 20 pound of muscle, it's only fair to allow Dempsey the same advantage right?
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,276
    21,745
    Sep 15, 2009
    Which style do you see him using? Or rather based on what past performance of his?
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,959
    48,022
    Mar 21, 2007
    Who Dempsey? I think once he realised he couldn't knock Holyfield out, presuming that didn't happen before they got into a Firpo-style shoot-out, he'd contest the territory and in-fight. So Sharkey, at a guess, would be the style we'd be most likely to see.
     
  14. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    You should just specify a version of Holyfield. Creating a mythical version of Dempsey is impossible. He could turn out to be a completely different fighter.
     
  15. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,297
    7,046
    Oct 25, 2006
    This could potentially be FOTY material. I'd also favour Holy slightly. For me, more well-rounded than Dempsey and as tough as old leather.