Holyfield vs. Frazier

Sorry I do not think this makes sense from several perspective, & I ask you to reconsider.

1) There is no good evidence that most athletes use PEDs.
It could be a significant minority or the majority, but nobody can do more than speculate how common it is.
Unless it is the Tour de France (at least many years), you really do not know.

2) Saying most athletes used "from day 1" makes no sense.
Many athletes got bigger & stronger later in their career-& have been exposed by tests & investigations.
Some of the most famous cheats like Bonds & McGuire did it way into their careers, not early.

3) Frazier or *any* athlete "could" have been using PEDs.
You or I could be wife beaters (well not if unmarried, lol!) but absent any even suggestive evidence it is neither fair nor likely that we are!

4) PEDs *do* have significant effects even absent weightlifting.
FIrst, just the muscular demands of exercising for many sports encourages growth & strength.
Also studies have shown what you can observe even in totally inactive woman taking androgens/testosterone for gender reassignment-& that is just to get to normal male levels, not what dopers use: they bulk you up/add muscle.

5) You are correct that some who are not big are dirty-they may have more fat, not used very long or effectively or some other explanation.

I ask again about the evidence that Frazier ADMITTED he lost the first fight with Ringo.
If Frazier said this, it should be easy to Google, please send us any hyperlinks.

I see that most in MSG favored Bonavena: but they were mostly his fans!

Here are some independent score cards, all agree Joe deserved a close fought victory.
[url]https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/joe-frazier-vs-oscar-bonavena-i[/url]

 

The Joe admitting he lost is a gag I created, All of your points are speculation as are mine but I’ve know even 0-2 boxers who retired who admitted they used gear, And in the 70s it wasn’t hard to get nor illegal from memory no reason to believe he didn’t use I don’t tho it’s just me stirring the pot.

 

I think Frazier is one of those you don't outbox.

An elite pressure fighter will always be, imo, the hardest opponent to beat.

You basically have to be able to beat them at their own game and usually that means being bigger than them or better on the inside.

Holyfield is neither which means he's going to get bullied as Frazier pounds out a decision.

 

When?

 

Hold on-you just straight up said that Frazier admitted he lost a fight against Bonavena.
There was nothing about that indicating you were trying to be humorous. You see others asking you about this?
Either you are backing off because you tried to push a lie, or you have no idea what would come across as a joke. Please understand that if you just make a clearly false statement on the level of say Trump, people will object & nobody will think you could have been joking.

My point about Holyfield suddenly balding & having heart problems after reaching his peak muscular size were facts, not speculation.
What I referred you to, this footnoted section of Wikipedia, is history, also not in any sense speculation:

Allegations of steroid and HGH use
On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that was under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and [url]human growth hormone[/url] (HGH). He denied ever using performance enhancers.[url][50][/url]

Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield, October 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[url][51][/url]

On March 10, 2007, Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[url][52][/url]

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida.[url][53][/url] Signature Pharmacy was under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH.[url][54][/url]


By contrast, your comments about Frasier using are all speculation.
They are also not based upon any actual specific information or legitimate suspicion about Frazier.
That some people used & anyone *could* lie & cheat...Does not make it logical or fair to conclude "there is no reason to believe he did not use".

Lastly, consider that just because you find somebody or occasional people who used does not suggest that that *anyone* used.
That would be like me saying I know woman who are taller than me, 182 cm/6'.
Therefor even though it is a tiny percentage of the population, this is an argument that any individual lady is likely to be taller.

Also tons of things are available & legal & are *still* uncommon.
You gotta be *fair* to someone like Frazier. Not spread defamatory speculation based upon nothing valid.

Why don't you start a thread asking if people think Frazier likely used PEDs? You will see that almost everyone will object to assuming Frazier ever sought, let alone gained such an advantage.

 

K, Holyfield used roids I know and yeah I was straight up lying just cause.

 

If he tried butting Frazier he'd be met with a head butt in return and come worse off.

 

Maybe you are young & immature, but do you really want to be known as a troll who cares nothing about The Truth & will say anything to get attention?

I appreciate the confession. Now I hope you will care about being able to be trusted & not wating other sincere people's time, OK?

 

Lol

 

This. The pressure will eventually toll after some evil exchanges, the prime Bob and weave will be murder for holy to time as the rounds go late. He hasn’t got foreman power to take joe out early either where he’s slow starting. It’s a brutal one though, I think holy gives him the hardest fight of his life

 

It was a close fight that couldve went either way. Joe got off the canvas and rocked back at Oscar the rest of the way. Not bad for a prospect in his 12th pro fight. Frazier's backers knew they had the goods after that fight.

 

It's a guarenteed fight of the year, probably decade. I don't think those two could have a bad fight unless Tony Perez finds a way to screw it up.

 

Frazier had a rock for a head and his mental toughness was just as sturdy. So I don't think Evander could rattle Joe or intimidate him with rough tactics.
My suspicion is that they would probably fight a clean fight between them. These guys had alot in common, mutual respect.