Holyfield vs Jim Jefferies

Early KO win for the Real Deal, Jeffries not strong enough and tehnically not good enough to beat Holyfield...

 

How much a boxer can bench press has what relevance to his ability to beat another man in a boxing ring ?
Joe Frazier failed miserably at weight lifting in the Superstars.
Paul Anderson and Georges Hackenshmidt were useless at boxing.The Pole Strongman Podzianowski was only average at MMA.
Jumbo Cummings lifted weights for years in prison it never helped him much in the ring.
Carnera, one of the very worst of the heavy champs would probably outlift all those before and after him.
Maybe Valuev would too.
Posts on weight lifting and whether Superman beats Batman, or Creed beats Balboa belong in the Lounge .imo .
Can we now expect over 20 posts on arm wrestling?

 

Mcvey you are a good very long term poster, but if you have noted or recalled some of the details about what I know, you would see most of it I know as well as you.

I never suggested that how much one lifts determines if he will win.
However you should know that certain amount of strength-& a hell of a lot of it compared to an average man, especially as a modern HW-helps a lot in some basic matters beyond clinching.
And it can increase muscular endurance. And when we discuss either who we think is better & under what conditions & how to credit them + the ethics of boxing & cheating: strength training is very relevant.

You should not assume you need to tell me that being super-strong does not guarantee great success.
But it is a fallacy to suggest that because some guys did not do well who were top in pure strength, that it does not help many: or that pure size & strength helped some of those guys become anywhere from decent journeymen to World Class.

Since I never wrote anything about fictional characters-& I have rarely if ever seen them here-it is silly to say they belong elswhere.
And it is a false equivalency, fruitless & creates friction to attempt to conflate fantasy characters with what effects boxing skills & success & is central to threads about things like PEDs, training for boxing, potential...
It would be as crazy as to attempt to censor discussion of cardio & roadwork & what boxers have done historically & its effects.

Arm wrestling is one highly specific sport which only involves a very delimited part of strength.
It is anot a whole science & workout system used across the board by boxers & sports professionals forever, lol!
This is a completely false equivalency.

Now I agree that Carnera might have outlifted everyone: extraordinary without even very modern training techniques. More so since he started before any steroids or HgH was even invented!
But Valuev? I know nothing about his history, training nor build that shows me he would be more than very strong compared to any average man. He was a pituitary giant, but not naturally/by build or by literal profession like Primo a strongman.

 

Both Carnera and Valuev suffered from the complaint.I stand by my post, weight lifting stories of over 20 posts are irrelevant to this thread.Best Wishes M.

 

Is arm wrestling really a highly specific sport? Actually i am not sure waht that means. I would have thought most if not all boxers would be pretty good at arm wrestling, Id have thought that arm wrestling would actually be pretty good training for boxing. I know in the movie over the top they talked of the importance of technique, but i would have thought technique overated in the sport.

One thing which might be interesting would be world weightlifting champ vs World Boxing champ vs top NFL player etc. Actually i reckon an arm wrestling challenge across several sports might actually be interesting to see.

Pretty sure Rocky Balboa would start favourite though.

 

I appreciate your wisdom & ethics of not being nutso oppressive in stating your opinion respectfully.
But you repeated a premise absent any argument of the categories of content that weightlifting effects in boxing & its relevance to training, the success of some, relation to PED usage...But in discussing it with me you are running up my # of posts on it lol!
You switched from the website to this thread, but for example everytime someone without evidence says Tyson used PEDs & often state or imply he could not get there naturally, a review of his potential re: response to exercise is as relevant as his history, might as well try ton stop talk about how strong he was when, his juvenile delinquint past-& we discuss tons of things related to character & psychology that are often just of interest, often not just central to success, but we talk about matters of ethics, character & just pure Human Interest of things far more tangental to boxing that resistance training.

Anywho, while they both had a form of Acromeglia, Valuev both did not have a similar build, seemed to do little to develop his muscles, & I dunno if he could lift as well as big guys who may have had less potential because they did not have the same massive bone structure-just big.

 

Yes arm wrestling is highly specific & mucho technique is involved.
But weight & mass are involved, Balboa would not be nearly as good as the huger guys.
tremendous forearm strength helps to.
I see no reason why arm wrestling would do much for boxing at all!
But boxers having disproportionate grip & wrist strength would make them tend to be very good at it. Tend.
That would be an interesting set of challenges!

The best ever was a pig farmer from Georgia, Clive Dean.
He was very tall & 460 lbs. I recall seeing him in the championship round as a kid against a super-hyped up, 280 lb. football player, likely an NFL lineman. Dean put him down with ease.

He also did the strongman competition, not very good overall but that is compared to top strength athletes.
And he got second place in both bending an iron bar against his head, & carrying a refrigerator!
If I am not mistaken-though maybe I created the memory since the thought is so amusing-the announcers said something about him being no faster without it, & he did well because he was in such a hurry to see what was inside of it!

Someone like Frank Columbo, only 200 lbs., while massively strong compared to a normal man, could not do so well.
If they loaded the fridge up heavier maybe Dean would have won. I trecall he could not deadlift the mininum, but that was over 600 lbs...