Holyfield vs Jim Jefferies

a 360lbs bench for 10 reps at 210lbs is world class weightlifting ability. Holyfield is a boxer, his genetics were boxing related. He is not a world class weightlifter

 

He's not a weightlifter (though powerlifter is more accurate for a bench press) and Holyfield at times in his career got to 218 pounds. A double bodyweight bench press would not be unheard of for a muscular 210-220 pound heavyweight with world class trainers and money to blow on top of the line nutritious food and supplements. For Holyfield, a double BW bench press would be 420-440 pounds. According to this calculator, 360 for 10 reps is equal to a 480 pound 1 rep Max. That's 40-60 pounds above a double BW bench press. That's totally doable for someone like Holyfield. Im about 180 pounds and have gotten up to nearly 400 pounds on the bench and I train myself with weights and I run and do boxing training and sparring.

If I had access to the trainers and nutritionists that Holyfield had, I don't doubt that I would be able to bench in the high 400s.

https://strengthlevel.com/one-rep-max-calculator

 

This seems a bit high. Normally someone with average neuro-muscular efficiency can do 10 reps at 75% of their 1 rep max.
That would be 450 lbs.
Someone who trains disproportionately for 1 rep max &/or has high NM efficiency-correlated with natural strength-may do 480 or so.
They would do a lower amount of reps at 75% of their 1 RM, but tend to be naturally stronger.

This calculator may have been developed from information on powerlifters who are naturally & by training better at 1 RM relative to whatever they can do for reps.
Think about what you can do at 75% of your 1 RM, it is likely ~ 10, not as little as what the hypothetical average above calculates.

 

Because he was from old era right?

 

No it is not. I wrote above that the conversion of 10 reps to single 1 RM is more likely to be 450 than 480 lbs., at least for a non-powerlifter like Holyfield).
Holyfield was also around 217 or so when he bulked up fully. But check out the world records here, if he was really World-Class compared to the record, he would be, say at least ~ 50 lbs. of the record right?
But the record for someone only 198 lbs. on the bench press is 608 lbs.! That is "raw" without any of those crazy shirts that give you artificial bounce...https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world

With steroids & HGH-taken effectively & "stacked" with supporting drugs such as insulin-it is possible that Holyfield could say do 10 reps with 360, when his genetic potential if he was completely natural would be around a single rep.
Take it from a long time natural lifter...

 

Ah do not exaggerate. Foreman was a mere 257. ;-)

 

See my comment about how I believe the calculator overestimates what most can do.
But your Father-at least assuming he never used PEDs-was naturally a very strong individual.
Thus he likely had a high neuro-muscular efficiency like many succesful powerlifters, & had a high 1 RM.
I lifted for years-always natural never even took creatine-& I needed a slight decline to reach 10 unassisted reps with 275 lbs.

He is very impressive!

 

Why do you only mention supplements & not the elephant in the room, the PEDs that we know Holyfield took, steroids & HGH?
What he achieved was only "totally doable" with drugs.
If you look at calculators that compute what guys can lift naturally-taking into account bone structure & body fat levels, & excepting what a very few outliars can accomplish-the numbers would not be that high.

Even a single effective course in PEDs will raise capacity. If someone drugs up a bunch of times effectively, including stacking drugs, precursor or pro-hormones, insulin...They will lift much more than a natural dude.

Your numbers are very impressive, but can you say you accomplished it without ever taking any PEDs?
When folks pump in a few times or more the levels of androgens they could manufacture naturally, there capacity greatly increases.
Holyfield could have done a single rep in the mid 300's if he never touched a PED, maybe a little more.
More than that if he was willing to put on much more body fat.
But most of all, even when lean, using PEDs.

 

BS. Holfyield, even on PED's was about 208 when he won the title, 208 for his first title defense and 210 for his second title defense. He's a blown up cruiser with skinny legs. Jeffries would be 230 today in shape.

Jeffries fought opponents heavier than Holyfield. You keep forgetting

I keep looking at ht best Holyfield fought and aside from apostle's prison Tyson, his results here are mediocre

He should be 0-2 vs Lewis.

He is 1-2 vs Bowe and the fight he won was close with a 17+ minute break in-between the action, allowing a sometimes gassed Holyfield time to re-fuel

So he's 1-4vs Lewis and Bowe.

He's 1-1 vs Moorer

He's 1-1-1 vs Ruiz, and the fight Holyfield won was a bad decision for him.

IMO, the Moorer fights, and Ruiz fights place him best. And Moorer had drinking issues and came in out of shape for the re-match

Sure he beat Cooper, but he was floored.
Sure he beat an old Larry Holmes but he was cut
Sure he beat an under motivated Buster Douglas.

 

Entaowed,

Why do you only mention supplements & not the elephant in the room, the PEDs that we know Holyfield took, steroids & HGH?
What he achieved was only "totally doable" with drugs.
If you look at calculators that compute what guys can lift naturally-taking into account bone structure & body fat levels, & excepting what a very few outliars can accomplish-the numbers would not be that high.

Even a single effective course in PEDs will raise capacity. If someone drugs up a bunch of times effectively, including stacking drugs, precursor or pro-hormones, insulin...They will lift much more than a natural dude.

Your numbers are very impressive, but can you say you accomplished it without ever taking any PEDs?
When folks pump in a few times or more the levels of androgens they could manufacture naturally, there capacity greatly increases.
Holyfield could have done a single rep in the mid 300's if he never touched a PED, maybe a little more.
More than that if he was willing to put on much more body fat.
But most of all, even when lean, using PEDs.

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Jeffries was by far the better athlete. Holyfield didn't hit that hard, even on PED's

 

Who did Jeffries fight who was over 208lbs?
Sure he beat Fitz ,but he had 47lbs on him and Fitz was 39,12 years the older man and hadn't fought for 2years.Fitz broke his nose and cut him above and below both eyes.
Sure he beat Corbett, but he was behind at the time of the stoppage and had 30lbs on him plus Corbett was 33 years old ,nearly 9 years his senior ,he hadn't fought for a year and a half, nor won a fight for 6 years!
Sure he beat Sharkey, but reports state it was anybody's fight after 20rds and he had 25lbs on Sharkey ,6 inches of reach, and 4 inches
in height.
Sharkey split his nose open and cut his eyes.Many thought Sharkey worthy of a draw.
LOL!
ps Holyfield's average weight in title fights was 213.5lbs.
Jeffries 217lbs and this includes the Johnson comeback fight.

 

It pains me to say this because we hardly agree on anything but this is spot on...

Holyfield had a fan friendly style and liked to play the humble under dog but was most likely the No1 PED abuser in the History of Heavyweight boxing.

His entire reputation is made up of beating a washed up post prison Tyson twice.....thats it.

On the upper level he lost more than he won......but but but the Tyson win.

Tyson is pictured as a borderline bum on this board but is a automatic career enhancer for Holyfield and Lewis.....

I still would take Holyfield over Jeffries, prime vs prime but it will not be easy..........Holyfield struggled or went life and death with some poor B/C level fighters like Stewart/Cooper/Czyz/Bean/Ruiz.....I guess his Roid cycle was off in those fights and it would not surprise me if Jeffries pulls it off over 15 plus rounds.

 

A 460lbs bench at 210lbs is a world class lift as per symmetric strength. You don't have to be the world record holder to have a world CLASS lift. 460 at 210 is an incredibly impressive feat for a powerlifter, much less a boxer. Take it from a long time natural lifter who's in college for kinesiology and strength training

The current best lifter at 198lbs weight class, John Haack, recently uploaded onto his ig a 507 lbs bench. Holyfield, a boxer, assuming he fully had a 480lbs bench, would only be 25lbs off of that, which in untested powerlifting is nothing. Note that one of these athletes are specifically a powerlifter and one is specifically a boxer. This is pretty much the equivalent to John Haack getting into the ring and knocking out Dave Allen.

 

Eh I wouldn't go that far, both were pretty phenomenal and had their strong points