Holyfield vs Jim Jefferies

I would bet a lot of money that Holyfield did not bench 360 ten times.

Can you tell us more about how you got up to "nearly 400 pounds"? Was this on a regular free weight setup? I've known a couple 180-lbish guys who put up 400 pounds without steroids, but they were both physical freaks who'd lifted a lot of heavy weights for many years (both were serious college athletes).

 

I really can't say, I just had been doing it for a while. But I don't have any secret formula or secret sauce or anything like that. But based on what I've seen from guys that don't have Holyfields resources and don't have an entire staff dedicated to training them, I'd say that it's definitely within the realm of possibility that Holyfield (or Lewis or Bruno or the K2 Brothers etc) could bench press 360 pounds for 10 reps.

 

Holyfield hit hard enough to drop Mercer and Bowe.

 

Holyfield hit hard enough to drop Mercer and Bowe.He knocked out modern 200lbs + heavyweights .

 

It would be within the realm of possibility if Holyfield and his staff dedicated themselves to increasing his bench press, sure. But that seems like an extremely weird thing for a boxer to do.

 

I appreciate the discussion, though if you are traditionally college *aged* you could not have been a long time lifter compared to kost or someone like me well into middle age, lol!

I did not say someone needs to be a world record holder to have a World class lift.
Not I commented how he should be somewhere at least in the ballpark of the world record.
I am open to evidence about what that is but even *if* Holyfield could do a 480 BP-which is 27 l not 25 lbs. off of what Haack uploaded-that is way less than the 600 lbs. + that I quoted.

Now when looking things up the best I see at 198 is 565 lbs., & since Holyfield was very lean & is unlikely to make that category, 600 for 220 lbs.
You cannot compare to the more difficult standard of what is done at a Full Meet.
So at 210 lbs. what would be the minimum you would say qualifies as "World Class"?
More useful might be what percentage off the world record for a specific weight qualifies as World Class?
Or what numbers would you have to put up "at a specific weight* would mean that World Class athletes are likely to win or might well win a meet stacked with other World Class competitors?

I am not denying that what Holyfield could lift is very impressive indeed.
Your boxing analogy might even hold, although you need more specialized skills for that...

But besides that this 1 RM formula seems more valid for those trained & practiced at 1 RM...
And that Holyfield needed mucho effective PED regimens to get there...
And that even "tested" categories in lifting either often have folks use undetected substances, & even if not just using PEDs effectively in the past increases potential thereafter-since muscle cells can recruit more nucleii & other factors.
Certain areas around the traps & neck get disproportionately large due to larger #s of Androgen receptors that flooding your body with totally artificial amounts of male hormone activate.

So I welcome your response man, but please be precise.
As above, what would be a World Class lift in a serious profesional meet at 210 lbs.?
Also what kind of weights have you been able to move? And although it is considered natural, I consider using a subtance like Creatine in a quantity you could never take in from diet nor the body produce a form of unnatural-unlike say protein powder.

 

The other guys are much bigger than Holyfield was, & unless Bruno was on PEDs, naturally.
So the others are much more likely to have been able to do 360 X 10 reps naturally-if they dedicated themselves to it.
But *so* many guys use drugs to get to the big numbers.

And even if they are clean (assuming they are just not using something not detectable as HGH often has been)...
Using in the past significantly increases the ability to retain strength & muscle even when off-cycle.

How do you think that some meet tested *World Records* approach or are the same as the greatest untested lifts ever?

 

Boxing?

 

Yeah, but Holyfield was 6'2 218 pounds with the physique of a pro bodybuilder. Look at old time bodybuilders like Reg Park or Marvin Eder, they were about the size of Holyfield and look at their feats of strength. Now, Bruno and Lewis and the K2 Brothers actually would have dwarfed those old school bodybuilders. Holyfield, especially being on roids was not too small to achieve a 360 pound bench press for 10 reps. I can easily see Holyfield achieving a 450 pound 1 rep max

 

Well they probably do it to help with his upper body strength. Football and basketball players use it for that purpose. Of course, it's not the sole thing focused on, but it generally gets included in a strength and conditioning routine using weights.

 

Eh someone wrote about weightlifting & ability to build bulk as a boxer. It is fine if we sometimes go off on a related sports subject.
What someone does in developing their body effects performance. If they lied & cheated to gain an advantage, like fighting more successfully against modern relative giants, that is very relevant to.

 

Some of what you say is correct, other things are way off.
Holyfield may have had the ability to do 450 for a one rep bench press.
Or it could be overstated, his actual measurements were not as big as many such as Bruno.
But I am saying he could not have done it naturally.

But pro bodybuilders are not merely very well built men.
Unless you are specifying certain natural competitions-though there is cheating there sometimes too, or used to use PEDs & increased total potential from it...
When you say pro bodybuilder, they are much more to immensely muscular.
Look at pictures of them or their actual weight per height in competition at a lower bodyfat than any of these fighters, except for his neck & to a lesser extent his traps (more receptors for PEDs), he would be almost absurdly "skinny" for them.
Much more so his legs, listed at things 22" & calves only 13"...

Bruno was bigger than those old school lifters.
Lewis & the Klitchkos, if you subtracted for there height & had them as lean it would be close.
The only "dwarfing" would be in height, & in actual measurements the old guys tend to be bigger.
Of course these HWs do not need a 52" chest or to maximize every bit of their arm mass...

 

Nineteen posts about weight lifting is rather excessive on a boxing site imo.

 

Holfyield Roids, bio lab and PED's are part of his legacy. Without them what does he accomplish?

 

If HOLYFIELD was on whatever ,were his opponents all clean? 19 posts on bench pressing etc is excessive on a boxing forum imo.What your opinion is, who cares?lol
Why not address my post ?
Who did Jeffries fight who was over 208lbs?
Sure he beat Fitz ,but he had 47lbs on him and Fitz was 39,12 years the older man and hadn't fought for 2years.Fitz broke his nose and cut him above and below both eyes.
Sure he beat Corbett, but he was behind at the time of the stoppage and had 30lbs on him plus Corbett was 33 years old ,nearly 9 years his senior ,he hadn't fought for a year and a half, nor won a fight for 6 years!
Sure he beat Sharkey, but reports state it was anybody's fight after 20rds and he had 25lbs on Sharkey ,6 inches of reach, and 4 inches
in height.
Sharkey split his nose open and cut his eyes.Many thought Sharkey worthy of a draw.
LOL!
ps Holyfield's average weight in title fights was 213.5lbs.
Jeffries 217lbs and this includes the Johnson comeback fight.