Holyfield Vs Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Webbiano, Mar 18, 2012.


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  1. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So I'm not exactly an ESB veteran, so I'm not sure if this thread has been made before, but I've certainly never laid eyes on it.

    I'd favour Holyfield if he tries to box behind the jab and picks his shots, however if he try's to go to war with Liston like he often did at heavyweight I think he gets in real trouble and could get stopped late

    discuss.
     
    Webbiano, Mar 18, 2012
    Webbiano, Mar 18, 2012
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I need time to mull this over.

    My first instinct with Holyfield is almost always, he loses in a comeptitive fight.

    I'll come back to it once I've thought a bit more but I struggle to picture Holy neutralising the jab.

    Holy has better lateral movement and I think he's better at throwing combinations. But is his speed enough that he can parry the jab to the side, land 3-4 shots to the body and head, then step out of rage again before Liston throws his deadly hooks?

    My instinct says no.

    I'll come back later though.
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #2
  3. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Next time remember 2 make d poll public , it's a selectable option .
    If Holyfield tries 2 box behind his jab he might get outboxed . However , if he slugs with Liston whom was no Bowe or Tyson and Liston does not try 2 maintain long distance in which he has a chance then he finds out that Holyfield was no Floyd Patterson and Holyfield stops Liston late and possibly early . Liston's chin was not better than Tyson/Mercer/Bowe/Douglas , he just never had d right opponents 2 test it , and Holyfield is underrated as a puncher while Liston extremely overrated .
     
    frankenfrank, Mar 18, 2012
    frankenfrank, Mar 18, 2012
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    it annoys me when polls aren't public :-(
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #4
  5. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    The mythical Listonosaurus would win by early round knockout, with ease. The real-world Liston, who's really the real-world height, weight and speed that he really, truly, actually was, would lose by mid to late-round kayo to the real great between the two.
     
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I wonder which Holyfield you have in mind? It does make a difference.

    I guess I'll go for the version that beat Bowe. Bowe had a lot of the same attributes - good at all ranges, technically very schooled, superior reach, good chin. Additionally, Holyfield still has a great chin here, if perhpas not the pure granite the roided version would sport for Tyson and the additional mobility the lighter weight brings I believe would stand him in good stead.

    Still, Liston has a superior jab to Bowe and Liston was arguably never truly KO'd until the ancient version was put down by Martin, so Liston still has several serious advantages. He's probably not going to get knocked out by the smaller Holyfield, he's going to score well with the jab and he's going to exact a heavy toll on Holyfield when he's on his way in. Holyfield needs to deal with this by staying busy, which isn't assured. Against Lewis the much older Holyfield was very reluctant to be busy because he didn't want to come under Lewis's gun on the way in. That attitude just gets him more as widely outboxed as he was against Lewis.

    On the other hand, when he comes in he can't just out-and-out duke it out like he did against Bowe. Liston is more heavy handed generally and his very very best punches are thrown at that kind of range. So what Holyfield has to do, in my opinion, is come inside, fight for balance, keep his feet under control, resist the urge to over-arch or punch for openings that aren't really there.

    Against Machen, Liston shortened up his punches dramatically because the heavy stuff was not working and boxed with great physical aggression. As the stronger man here, this strategy might work again, but it's unlikely that Holyfield will be intimidated by the rougher stuff. Era also becomes important here, as does the specific referee. However, if he's protected by era and referee or can just flat out tough out whatever Liston gives him, Holyfield is the more fluid of the two and should prosper here.

    If Holyfield comes with the right plan, executes it properly, can keep Liston off-balance inside and deal with the rough side of Sonny's game, I think he can punch out a decision. It wouldn't be pretty though.

    I do favour Liston though. I think the job is to big. I think the jab hoovers up some points and does some hurting and I think that Holyfield would get drawn into something more often than is good for him on the inside. I think Liston would put the hurt on him a couple of times, and unless that happened in Liston rounds - rounds he was winning anyway - I think that would be enough to tilt the thing.

    A 15 round fight with Joe Cortez refereeing fought in 2000 and I might need to have a re-think.
     
    McGrain, Mar 18, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 18, 2012
    #6
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    you do actually genuinely troll on Liston don't you :lol:

    I think it's to compensate for the over rating that generally happens but still, you can't deny the man is a great hw :good
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #7
  8. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    No, he's genuinely utter trash and Patterson from the Moore fight destroys him, like any great fighter in good health would, and actually did.

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    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    You worhtless piece of **** troll

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    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #9
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Emoticons give it a way a bit lad.
     
    McGrain, Mar 18, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 18, 2012
    #10
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    emoticons? what emoticons?

    :yep
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #11
  12. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    :lol:

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    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    #12
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm picking Liston!

    I think the first few rounds are mega competitive but eventually Liston is able to keep Holyfield on the end of his jab.

    Liston takes a points decision, 9-6 type scorecard.

    In beating bowe, Holyfield beat a better man then Liston ever would, but Liston's physical attributes make me struggle to pick Holyfield over him.
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #13
  14. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Liston wasn't only more powerful than Bowe...but...ESB Liston is slightly taller and heavier, as well. :twisted:
     
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Mar 18, 2012
    #14
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    to make up for it, I've just picked foreman to stop liston :good

    take my olive branch and we'll pretend I never picked Liston to beat Holyfield

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    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 18, 2012
    #15
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