Holyfield vs Valuev - The aftermath

Holy...there were rounds that were hard to score because basically neither fighter did anything but I saw it for Holy.

Probably not, just a bad decision.

Very woeful...but he can operate at this level because he isnt a total ****** for his size.

Yes..kinda...Holy wasnt a contender though..he got this fight on name alone, I dont think this fight reflects on the division to much because its not like Holy had beaten any contenders to get here...The division is pretty **** nonetheless.

I dont think so...I dont consider this belt a world title at the moment...it is a circus belt and Valeuv probably isnt even a top 10 heavy at the moment if you scored the fights he got gifted against him.

As stated before ****...It is poor and not really seeing much talent coming up to change this trend.

 

Holyfield.

One bad decision is lucky. Two is suspicious. Three is undeniably a fix. It has **** all to do with "the judges sit at ring side", we're talking about fights that 5 year olds could score better.

The judges were bought, yes.

He is erratic. He did quite well in his recent rematch against Ruiz and dominated Liakhovic. But he performed mediocre vs Barret and Donald, and Holyfield now. He looked pretty mobile against Liakhovic and Ruiz II, but tonight he was nearly as stuck-in-the-mud as Butterbean was. He's a contender but no more than that.

Just as much as Foreman-Moorer, Holmes-Mercer, Patterson-Bonavena, etc did.

Valuev is not the champion, and in fact he shouldn't even have been WBA champion since he clearly lost it to Chagaev, who was stripped because of an injury.

Likewise, how does it reflect on the fact that an old Patterson arguably beat Bonavena, while he gave a peak Frazier hell as well as Ali? Mercer nearly beat Lewis, but lost a shutout decision to Holmes. Moorer beat Holyfield but lost to old Foreman. Old Norton went close with a peak Holmes while an aging Ali handled a younger version of him. Patterson at 37 gave Ali a lot of trouble until the cut.

These are just singular examples, which happen in every era. And before you say that Patterson was in his 30's while Holyfield is in his 40's, these are different eras. Fighters age slower today. Holyfield at 34 looked as good as he ever did against Tyson; fighters in their mid-30's were much slower and often shot before the 70's.


Let's not forget that Ibragimov, who Wlad DID dominate, beat Holyfield by 11 rounds to 1.

It's a good division, like i said before, these things happen in every era.

Plus, it's INCREDIBLY popular to hate on every current division. It has always happened in history. Marciano was a crude slugger, Bowe was ducking challenges, etc etc.


We have Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Haye, Chagaev, Povetkin, Arreola, Gomez, Thompson, Ibragimov, Chambers and Dimitrenko. Pretty solid.

 

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Since I'm feeling lazy today, I'll just second this post and thank Minotauro for doing the work for me.

I felt that Holyfield won the fight though. Incidently, I think Vitali Klitschko would have Valuev for breakfast...

 

Holyfield did little but more than Valuev who deserved to lose his title for lack of fighting, How you can say Valuev won is beyond me but when King is involved...strange things can happen...Valuev should now be used as cannon fodder vs Vlad or Vitali, although he does not deserve a shot...Evander would be swallowed up by a decent heavy...match him with Povetkin in 4 months as a barometer. The division is solid, I cant think of any that did not have its bad fights from the 70's, 80's 90's and Vlauev has squeaked by in a few fights...Primo Carnera was a much better fighter and I think its apartent all Nicolay has is Size 7" and 330 lbs...it would be a horible sight to see him fall but its HIS time to get KO'D and Evander now needs to also go out the way Louis, Ali, Holmes, Tyson went out, on his ass

 

I had to stop watching after 8. Had Holy by a couple rounds at that point.

It would not surprise me. But if the powers that be are betting on the freak show factor to sell more tickets, this latest display will likely deflate such lofty delusions.

To his defense, we have seen him much better but any sort of movement causes him trouble. On a particularly bad day, he looks absolutely amateurish. Against the right style opponent, he has looked formidable but they must be hand-picked by STYLE (not even overall ability). Lastly, I fear the big guy is on a rapid physical decline.

I think there is still decent depth to the division and it is under-rated. However, Valuev must be rid of the division. He has always been a King shamjob. Make the exciting matchups with the K bros., Haye, Chag, give each of the old blood no more than one chance (No more Maskaev, No Golota, etc..) and mix in the new blood liberally. We never no how good or bad the new crop is UNTIL they fight. Make these matchups often and the division bounces right back.

I don't see the reflection. Either one would retire Holy in a fashion that would lose fans with its savagery.

 

It really is a shame that Evander didn't get the decision. Would a victory over Valuev have boosted his all time ratings? Probably not by much. But considering the circumstances, it would have been a great way to end a career.

 

Considering his age, it most definitely would have bumped him up there.

Look at what a similar win did for Foreman.

 

It was nothing like the Foreman victory. Foreman executed a plan and ensnared Moorer, finishing him power. Foreman had offense and output. And for that matter, Moorer defended his title with a bit of passion.

Holyfield merely pulled out some moves from Dancing with the Stars and Valuev showed no pulse whatsoever. There were few if any meaningful connects in the entire fight. It was listless and uninspired.

 

Er, you're aware that one of the reasons Valuev looked so **** poor is because Holyfield implemented a simple, subtle yet effective strategy against a fighter who's no genius to begin with, yes?

Foreman's "claim" of having a plan has been dismissed as bull**** by more then one poster.

 

Precisely why I added the words " considering the circumstances."
As for the comparison to big George, Foreman won the LINEAL heavyweight title by knocking out a legitimately good fighter who by all standards, deserved to be rated at the top of his division. Additionally, Foreman was not trying to repair a horribly damaged record, as his stats were still in respectable shape. As much as I think a win over valuev would have helped Evander's standings, the impact would have likely been minimal. In fact, most people ( including myself ), feel that he won that fight as it is, but I'm not about to bump him up 3 or 4 places because of it.