Holyfield was steroid cheat?

I have great respect for Usyk. I Don't know if he is clean. Just because he never popped dirty doesn't mean much these days. I hope he is clean.

 

Holyfield was a big steroid cheat. And to just say everyone was on it is a bit of a cop out. Holyfield fought some guys not on it and as a big draw and moneymaker he had the advantage of getting quality drugs and escaping detection or punishment. Always helps when you got money.

 

How do you know if he fought anybody not on PEDS? THE WHOLE scandal around Holyfield was surrounded by a fella named Evan Fields! Lol, if that Dr would have never released that information this wouldnt even be a discussion.

 

Obvious to a blind man Holyfield was a juicer. He was hanging out with and working out with Lee Haney as far back as 1990. They had articles in the New York Times on it. He went bald, his head grew and his body transformed. All that before the Evan Fields story broke out. As for guys not on the juice - there are always guys that just won’t take the stuff or don’t have the connections. Holyfield and Roy Jones were two guys that fought guys beneath their talent level on occasion and juiced up to the max. Not good guys.

 

Oh really? So most fighters with good physiques are all on PEDS, right?

 

I didn’t say that. I said he his head grew, he went bald, and was hanging out with Lee Haney as far back as 1990. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. And that was before he got caught. We KNOW he was a cheat now. so was Roy

 

That doesnt answer my question. For example if i go and hang out with @JOKER because i think his woman is aight looking and i might want a piece, does that mean because he smokes a hit out the bong that i have to? Absolutley not, so just cause Holyfield hung around a guy that has ties to PEDS doesnt convince me that he was on it just by the eye test. Was he on peds? Sure, but only because a medical Dr. Exposed it.

 

I see your point. All the evidence up until Holyfield got caught was circumstantial. I’ll just say it’s very hard to bulk up the way Holyfield did from cruiserweight in a high endurance sport while remaining with almost 0 body fat. In addition to all the other red flags while we wouldn’t have proof he would always be suspect.

 

As Ali once asked, "Is the Pope a Catholic?"

 

If everyone takes / took steroids, then it's a level playing-field, no different than if everyone were not to take steroids. The problem lies in some boxers being allowed to juice and others not being allowed to juice. But if everyone is under the same rules equally, then it doesn't invalidate anything.

Anyway, one would have to be SERIOUSLY naïve to think any athlete, especially at the top level is 100% clean in the 21st century when the world itself is not 100% natural. Any chemical that enhances an athlete in anyway, can be considered a performance enhancing drug, not just steroids or growth hormones. So where exactly do we draw the line? And why would an athlete take something that doesn't enhance their performance? What, to stay more natural than regular average JOE's who aren't even athletes. That's how silly it is to assume anybody today anywhere the top of any athletic sport is 100% clean.

It's not a case of who is 100% clean and who is not, but rather, who is more clean relatively speaking, than their contemporaries.

 

@catchwtboxing look at the 90s era from this perspective: the guy, who looked the least possible steroid-user from all top-30 or top-50 heavyweights - Francois Botha - was caught using steroids. Simply because he didn't bother to mask PED-using. And the guys like Golota, Ibeabuchi, Morrison, Bruno, Seldon and other bodybuilder-looking heavyweights never were caught. Because it was extremely EASILY to avoid being caught back then. I'm pretty sure that Jarrell Miller, who was caught 3 times in current era, would never fail dopint test in 90s.

Look at these guys and tell me they weren't on steroids:

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People can gain muscle mass without using PEDS. The point about you bringing up that he gained 12 pounds of muscle as a Heavyweight is irrelevent imo.

 

You, Drenlou, & The Long Count are correct.
That it was easy to cheat in no way makes the extreme, cynical, & lazy argument that everybody, or nearly all, were using PEDs.
It is absurd to claim that not buying the most extreme, unsupported suppositions is *naive*.

Yes it is a cop out to assume guilt for everyone & smear the whole era-while providing no actual evidence.
It is also nonsensical to equate using any "chemical"-which could be a legal substance, food or drink-with banned ones & those that dramatically transform the body with the likes of male hormone & say everyone is relatively guilty, smh.

If you wanna really know the truth instead of pushing a preconception or agenda, look with *care* at the details.
When the evidence is not there, do not draw (especially damning) conclusions.
That is called being fair-& intellectually rigorous.

Now others just do not have an idea of the potential for natural development.
Some especially with big bone structures can get the size of everyone NAMED thus far.
Although Bruno would be about at the maximum...

To say anyone with the muscular size of say Ike was using is as foolish as saying because a man is NOT very big-or has more fat-then he must have never touched the stuff.
I have lifted for years, & yeah some guys can be that size naturally.
When I kept posting the link for natural maximum muscular potential that studies corroborate-especially considering height, bone mass, food bulk...
Nobody can *ever* debate this.

About specific examples...Yes just Holyfield's associations would not establish guilt.
Although the sudden just upper body, especially around the traps & neck development, baldness, "heart" prblems-regardless of whether his head grew-were very suggestive.
Then we discovered years ago his link to Balco, & also HGH.

Lewis? Leave asides that he could have juiced, you cannot prove a negative...
Being 6'5" & in the 240's with moderate body fat, especially with his frame, is quite achievable.

Some guys juiced & we will never know it.
Occasionally someone does get a false or unintentional positive like from beef or a contaminated supplement.

But nobody should be just derisively assuming everyone cheated & lied.
That all had access. Nobody had ethical reservations. Nobody worried about health repercussions. Everyone was convinced they would benefit from them, regardless of constitution or style.

Let's be rational by not emotionally jumping to a conclusion that is the definition of a "everybody in this group" has a stigmata or undesirable or damning trait.

 

Didn't Evander pass all tests in his prime though?

 

Holyfield was clean.

It's Evan Fields who was a PEDmeister.