Holyfield would have done Tyson in 1992

holy whipped mikes ass in sparring at the 84 olympic trials..,tyson always had trouble with guys with equal speed..,look at the quick tillis fight and it will tell you everything you need to know about what the real deal would of done to iron mike anytime in the 80's.


DAN LAW

 

Ohhh the irony.

 

I think Holyfield would always beat Tyson

 

Quite the contrary. Tyson's style depended on age far more than Evander's style did. Those who adjust thier style to compensate for age are able to do better at later stages of thier respective careers.

In 1992 Holyfield was a different fighter than he was in 1996. And so was Mike for that matter.

Tyson was regularly fighting top fighters, he was still in top condition and just come off two big wins over the number 2 contender in Ruddock. Holyfield was a small heavyweight with a chip on his shoulder. He did not have the same body of experience that he did in those 4 years he fought Bowe (3), Mercer, Moorer all top level fighters while Mike was in jail.

As a younger fighter he would have been far more reckless, more trigger happy and he would not have fought Tyson the same way that he fought him in 1996. It would be competitive, but not close.

Tyson TKO11

 

nah..,tko 11 for evander you can see mike fading in rounds 9-10 against quick tillis..,holy was much more accurate and would be countering mike to death all might breaking him down mentally..,mike only had 1 stoppage past the 7th..,surley he would of never have got it against holy.

ill take real deal over mike from the cradle to the grave...,

 

Dumbest post of the month. Congrats!!!

 

Oh and BTW....a prime Holyfield beats any version of Tyson. I have stated my reasons and feelings toward this many, many times...no need to rehash it. Just to say, I won a TON of money off the first one...and I would have done the same if they had fought earlier as well.

Lewis and Bowe in their primes beat him as well.

Not a knock on Tyson...he was a MARVEL...

 

we do this thread once every 6 months or so, and nobody's opinion is gonna change. people bringing up quick tillis as a reason to think holy beats peak tyson is a little ridiculous. should those picking tyson compare him to cooper and mercer (two short hard swingers with a lot less skill than prime tyson that gave holy fits)?

 

Yep. Holyfield always had Tyson's number.

Holyfield was a better inside fighter than Tyson. He had a better left hook inside and would usually lead with his head to bull guys around the ring. He was a very rough customer inside with elbows, his head and his shoulder.

Tyson excelled at that medium-long range where guys would back up right into his power. But he was always suceptible to those short inside uppercuts and hooks.

 

Actually the only reason why he's only had 1 stoppage past the 7th round is because most fighters that he takes the distance in a UD are fighting to survive. Holyfield wouldnt, rather he'd fight valiantly allowing for opportunities. Therefore a stoppage in the 11th round is within reason.

Tyson was the more accurate puncher. This talk about Tyson breaking down mentally has no relevance in this conversation; it is simply anti-Tyson rhetoric. this actually comes down to a matter of styles. Tyson threw more combinations pre-prison than he did post prison. He was far more consistent. Holyfield on the other hand lacked the body of experience that he got from his 3 wars with Bowe, the Mercer and the Moorer fights. That cannot simply be discounted. Without that experience and savvy that he picked up during that time period I doubt he would have ever withstood Tyson's onslaught. He would have made it competitive but he would have always fallen short.

The added experience, filling out - physically and having Tyson inactive for 4 years worked to his advantage.

If Cotto fought Mayweather in 2005 I'm pretty sure the majority of ESB folks would predict a PBF win. Now that Cotto has picked up some valuable experience a prediction favoring Mayweather is no longer unanimous. The experience made the difference.

Tyson vs. Holyfield is the same, in 1992 Tyson would have beaten him up. I said it then and I still believe it now.

 

This is a tough one, and over time, I've oscillated. I remember back around 1988 I told John Bray that Tyson would KO Holyfield. And I really liked both. But I thought that Tyson was too fast, too strong, good head movement, very determined. Guys like Dokes and Qawi did not have the same snap and vicious ferocity to their punches, and they gave Evander serious battles. Bray told me he had sparred Holy and guaranteed that Evander would defeat Tyson.

Then Tyson starts slipping, using less head movement, less combinations, fighting less often, looking strong but not as skillful against Bruno, was sharp but not sufficiently challenged by Williams, and then showed up improperly trained against Douglas and took a beating.

The Tyson that defeated Ruddock was still a beast, such ferocious power, he beat up a 6'3" 238 pound guy with some serious snap himself. Then I'm looking at Evander and his just over 200 pounds, a guy who started at 180, and figure that he simply would not be able to absorb that type of power and body punching, nor would his punches be strong enough to deter Tyson.

But, it was still a great fight, because Evander had never lost, had stopped everyone he'd fought at heavy, although not as explosively as Tyson, but he showed he could take it and give it, and had a nice blend of speed, power, skill, chin, and was he was fight sharp, not just some former 80s heavy past it because of drugs, weight problems, or inactivity. Everyone knew that a prime Evander would give Tyson a real fight.

But, Tyson goes and gets himself a **** case and then breaks his ribs in sparring and the fight is off. Too bad. Then he goes away to prison for over 3 years. Those were three years that Evander was staying active against the best heavys in the world. If there is one thing that boxing history has taught, it has taught that 3 years of inactivity has a big impact on a fighter. There is no doubt that Tyson wasn't the same when he came back. For the first time, I saw guys bulling him into the ropes, his legs weren't the same, he no longer had the same consistency of output, fewer combinations, the headmovement was slower and less consistent, and even his punches looked wider.

Still, Holy was no spring chicken. He had heart problems, had lost twice to Bowe, once by brutal KO, lost once to Moorer in a lethargic performance, and looked like he was on the wane. Inactivity is not good for a fighter, but neither is punishment, and Evander had taken a fair amount of that, despite staying active.

Quite frankly, I don't think Tyson ever had the type of conditioning that Riddick Bowe had in the first Holy fight. Mike may have had more one punch snap, but Riddick at 6'5" 235 pounds of muscle with a long reach had a lot of power and wonderful condition in that first fight, and despite losing, Evander showed his championship toughness and heart once again. Could Tyson ever keep that kind of nonstop pace and land as often as Bowe could with that shorter height and reach? I don't think so. And Bert Cooper, who came before that, was sort of a Tyson type, with a wonderful chin, great right hand snap, showed up in great shape, and couldn't have landed a more perfect right to drop Evander. Yet, Evander got up and landed blazing combinations and showed his wonderful heart once again. So, I think if Tyson didn't get Evander quick, he wouldn't. I never saw any fighter tougher than Evander. And when Bowe stopped him the third time, watch carefully - Evander had hurt Riddick and was tensing up and attacking at the time that he literally ran into a perfectly timed hellacious right from a 240 pound puncher. That was the only time Evander was ever stopped, up to that point. And Bowe wasn't inactive for three years.

And that's what I told a friend before Tyson-Holy I. I told him that I didn't know who would win, but one thing I could guarantee him was that there was no heavyweight tougher than Evander, with a better chin and willpower, and that it would be very difficult for Mike to stop him, that three years off will hurt anyone. I didn't think Mike could keep up the kind of pace and body punching output that Bowe could, and that his shorter height and reach would make it tougher for Tyson to hit Evander than Bowe, and easier for Evander to land. The big X factor for me wasn't so much Tyson, but how much Evander had left, and how he'd react to one of Tyson's snappers if and when he got hit, and what would happen to Evander's heart if it was a war and he hit the wall. But I knew it was a fight. And it was, and Evander owned him. He successfully smothered Tyson, blocked his punches, and beautifully rolled and counterpunched with wonderful speed. Tyson threw one at a time, didn't hardly work the body, lacked a consistent output, no longer moved his head side to side - but rather forward - which when you come forward can lead to head butts. But for being hurt momentarily in about the 5th round, Evander was in total control of that fight all the way. And the KO was brutal. Tyson was GONE in the 10th round.

However, one thing we must all consider. I think Evander was 218 pounds for their first fight, and quite frankly, looked like he was on the juice. Back in 92, he would have been more along the lines of 205, like he was for Bowe. So, we also have to ask, how much of his strength and performance were owing to performance enhancing drugs?

 

good, fair post. the last point you made cannot be underemphasized. holy comes off some beatings and some lackluster performances and has some bizarre heart ailment and an equally miraculous faith healing of that heart and than looks about as good as he ever did versus tyson taking some very hard tyson leather without too much trouble?? throw in what else we know about holy (pre mature balding at a very young age and Evan Fields) and if you don't think he was juiced, i have some water front property in arizona to sell.

 

Holyfield would beat Tyson at any stage of the game.

 

Apollack I was going to include Riddick Bowe into the subject but I didn't earlier because I felt that it would just lead to an off topic discussion.

But now that you've mentioned it I guess I will go along too. I always felt that Riddick Bowe was a very strong heavyweight when it came to inside game. And I can't help but think that Bowe would have had a field day with Tyson inside as well. I would still pick Tyson however Bowe could also win that fight. A prime Riddick Bowe, mind you. This'd be a tougher fight for Tyson than Ruddock was because Ruddock wasn't as mean as Bowe inside. Bowe never liked going backwards and he'd lay right inside and throw uppercut after uppercut.

I think like Tyson, Bowe just suffered from a lack of interest in training and being in great shape.

 

I think one should ignore all the **** that came after prison, perhaps even the mental problems before that. What you have to look at is the beast that stepped in the ring against Berbick and Spinks and ask yourself how Holyfield would have dealt with that.