Hopkins: An Analysis

klion22 · Feb 28, 2008

sues2nd said:

I will try....

Joe has a tremendous physical advantage on Bernard in the fact that he is much faster and busier. Noone will dare dispute that.

But, ask any boxing fan what the number one weapon vs tremendous speed is and they will all tell you tremendous timing (and counter punching as Lance stated previously). Now, go make a post asking what fighter has the best timing in boxing currently....Im willing to bet most will tell you Hopkins (or Floyd IMHO). His timing with his lead right and counter right are ridiculous.

People point to the fact that vs Winky, it looked as if this had slipped a bit...but they are ignoring one major factor....Winky's shell defense is unbelievable...being above his normal weight would have no bearing on this, as its predicated on technique, not reflexes and speed. A fighter like Wright is MADE to make you look as if your timing and accuracy have waned. Yet Hopkins still landed more on Winky than pretty much anyone has in YEARS. He still wobbled Winky late (again something noone has in years). This was a bi-product of the opponent, not the fighter.

Now onto output.

Instead of explaining it in such detail, I will make it easier. Paul Williams is an awkward fighter who throws in excess of 1000+ punches a fight. Vs Quintana he threw FAR less. Why? Because of Quintana's superior movement. And again, go make a post asking for the top fighters in the area of footwork/movement are and you again will see many choosing Bernard (or Floyd).

Its why Winky was able to throw in excess of 1000 punches in his previous fight and barely broke 600 vs Bernard.

But back to the Quintana - Williams comparison (and tho I FULLY admit that Calzaghe is 100x the fighter Williams is....Hopkins is also 100x the fighter Quintana is...). Quintana used superior movement to negate Paul's output...used superior defense to keep him off balance (unable to set his feet to throw in bunches or with power)...used superior timing to either lead or counter past William's lack of defense (something Calzaghe shares with Paul...tho again, better...but cannot be considered good).

This is how I see Hopkins approaching this fight. His lateral movement will be enough to cut Joe's workrate down significantly (the thought that Joe will just outwork Bernard is crazy talk). Joe WILL be open for that lead or counter right all night (Bernard's accuracy is also amazing...go look at his punch stats in most fights...)...and will also be unable to really sit and set on any type of combo he would normally throw.

Dont be too surprised if their workrate is similar (as in the Winky fight)....with Bernard landing the much cleaner shots throughout.

My prediction? Hopkins UD.

(oh and anytime the fight gets in close...which it will...Hopkins dirty infighting ability makes this match up a mismatch in his favor)
Click to expand...

Actually, Hopkins' counter punching was exceptional against Winky. Some of them were in close quarters and even Lampley seemed to miss them. Surprisingly, Max Kellerman noticed them. He buckled Winky really good in the first round with a flush counter right. Hopkins did a lot of jumping in and throwing 5-6 combinations and jumping back out. That explains his high work rate of 640 punches thrown in that fight.

But good point about the Williams/Quintana comparison. I don't know what Williams threw in that fight but it had to be noticeably under 1000. And that was obviously accomplished because Quintana was countering so well.

Farmboxer · Feb 28, 2008

Hopkins is still excellent for his age, he does not show his age.

cardstars · Feb 28, 2008

sues2nd said:

I will try....

Joe has a tremendous physical advantage on Bernard in the fact that he is much faster and busier. Noone will dare dispute that.

But, ask any boxing fan what the number one weapon vs tremendous speed is and they will all tell you tremendous timing (and counter punching as Lance stated previously). Now, go make a post asking what fighter has the best timing in boxing currently....Im willing to bet most will tell you Hopkins (or Floyd IMHO). His timing with his lead right and counter right are ridiculous.

People point to the fact that vs Winky, it looked as if this had slipped a bit...but they are ignoring one major factor....Winky's shell defense is unbelievable...being above his normal weight would have no bearing on this, as its predicated on technique, not reflexes and speed. A fighter like Wright is MADE to make you look as if your timing and accuracy have waned. Yet Hopkins still landed more on Winky than pretty much anyone has in YEARS. He still wobbled Winky late (again something noone has in years). This was a bi-product of the opponent, not the fighter.

Now onto output.

Instead of explaining it in such detail, I will make it easier. Paul Williams is an awkward fighter who throws in excess of 1000+ punches a fight. Vs Quintana he threw FAR less. Why? Because of Quintana's superior movement. And again, go make a post asking for the top fighters in the area of footwork/movement are and you again will see many choosing Bernard (or Floyd).

Its why Winky was able to throw in excess of 1000 punches in his previous fight and barely broke 600 vs Bernard.

But back to the Quintana - Williams comparison (and tho I FULLY admit that Calzaghe is 100x the fighter Williams is....Hopkins is also 100x the fighter Quintana is...). Quintana used superior movement to negate Paul's output...used superior defense to keep him off balance (unable to set his feet to throw in bunches or with power)...used superior timing to either lead or counter past William's lack of defense (something Calzaghe shares with Paul...tho again, better...but cannot be considered good).

This is how I see Hopkins approaching this fight. His lateral movement will be enough to cut Joe's workrate down significantly (the thought that Joe will just outwork Bernard is crazy talk). Joe WILL be open for that lead or counter right all night (Bernard's accuracy is also amazing...go look at his punch stats in most fights...)...and will also be unable to really sit and set on any type of combo he would normally throw.

Dont be too surprised if their workrate is similar (as in the Winky fight)....with Bernard landing the much cleaner shots throughout.

My prediction? Hopkins UD.

(oh and anytime the fight gets in close...which it will...Hopkins dirty infighting ability makes this match up a mismatch in his favor)
Click to expand...

Excellent analysis. I just had to ask because no one taking BHop has ever really explained themselves. :good

sues2nd · Feb 28, 2008

cardstars said:

Excellent analysis. I just had to ask because no one taking BHop has ever really explained themselves. :good
Click to expand...

Im going to do a thorough analysis of the fight and matchup as we get closer to the actual date (alot of stuff I see that I havent mentioned yet...saving it...:yep ). I know if I do it now, by fightnight, it will be lost on page 319...

:thumbsup

Amsterdam · Feb 28, 2008

sues2nd said:

Im going to do a thorough analysis of the fight and matchup as we get closer to the actual date (alot of stuff I see that I havent mentioned yet...saving it...:yep ). I know if I do it now, by fightnight, it will be lost on page 319...

:thumbsup
Click to expand...

But then you're going to have to eat crow when the Supernatural one destroys and stops Bernard and be guilty of underrating Calzaghe and overrating Bernard(especially currently).

TroubleLurks · Feb 28, 2008

MasterCalzaghe said:

even most die hard Hopper fans will say he is best @ 175 as many here on ESB have said even!

Click to expand...

I literally stopped reading after this. How any knowledgeable boxing fan made it past this point is beyond me. Perhaps for comedic value.

FRKO · Feb 28, 2008

sues2nd said:

(oh and anytime the fight gets in close...which it will...Hopkins dirty infighting ability makes this match up a mismatch in his favor)
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree. Joe could (and probably will) get just as dirty as Bernard on the inside if he allowed himself to. No way is Joe gonna let Bernard bully him around without taking a lot of **** for it.

sambob · Feb 28, 2008

Amsterdam said:

But then you're going to have to eat crow when the Supernatural one destroys and stops Bernard and be guilty of underrating Calzaghe and overrating Bernard(especially currently).
Click to expand...

Are you for real?

I honestly don't know anymore, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

I strongly disagree. Joe could (and probably will) get just as dirty as Bernard on the inside if he allowed himself to. No way is Joe gonna let Bernard bully him around without taking a lot of **** for it.
Click to expand...

What would Joe do? I've only seen about 7 or 8 of his fights, but I don't ever rememer him fighting a PHYSICAL fight the way Bernard does. or grinding out a 12 rounder fighting all on the inside, with somebody up in his chest for every second of every round.

sues2nd · Feb 28, 2008

Dee said:

I strongly disagree. Joe could (and probably will) get just as dirty as Bernard on the inside if he allowed himself to. No way is Joe gonna let Bernard bully him around without taking a lot of **** for it.
Click to expand...

Delete your screenname...plain and simple.

NOONE, is dirtier than Bernard. This isnt an opinion, its fact. If you feel differently, you have NEVER seen Hopkins fight.

sues2nd · Feb 28, 2008

Amsterdam said:

But then you're going to have to eat crow when the Supernatural one destroys and stops Bernard and be guilty of underrating Calzaghe and overrating Bernard(especially currently).
Click to expand...

Or your finally gonna see the greatness of the Executioner! One or the other.

:hey

Words · Feb 29, 2008

This is a great thread, I am british and I LOVE seeing the british Calzaghe nuthuggers get pwned.

Dont get me wrong, I think Calzaghe will beat Hopkins, but you can NEVER write Hopkins off. Even if he's 43. He deserves more respect than he's getting.

bigtime-skills · Feb 29, 2008

Motor City Sam said:

How did I know that a thread by a guy named MasterCalzaghe would have the theme of Hopkins being overrated?
Click to expand...

:-( :rofl :yep

bigtime-skills · Feb 29, 2008

Lance_Uppercut said:

Sues2nd KO2 Mastercalzaghe
Click to expand...

:yep

MasterCalzaghe · Feb 29, 2008

TroubleLurks said:

I literally stopped reading after this. How any knowledgeable boxing fan made it past this point is beyond me. Perhaps for comedic value.
Click to expand...

I was said here by a Hopkins fan quite recently, as Hopkins himself said too I believe - someone want to dig out some quotes/links?

Sounds to me like you're making excuses for 19th, like when he loses it'll be because of the weight :-(

I know what I wrote was accurate, but lets see come fight night. I'm a man of my word and will admit it when proven wrong.

BewareofDawg · Feb 29, 2008

MasterCalzaghe said:

Heres my analytical rundown of Hopkins. No I am not digging him but what I am doing is factually presenting statistics as I personally see them going by what I watch / read.

Hopkins weight:

Right, lets get this off the bat shall we? His frame and his height tells us this man was really a lot bigger than his best suited fighting weight was; even most die hard Hopper fans will say he is best @ 175 as many here on ESB have said even! This man truly and religiously honed his body to its minimum weight and I respect that.
Hopkins truly emaciated himself to fight @ 160 as I say and props to him but thats a comfort zone no less and it took a man like him (Taylor) to prove it. Bottom line is fighting @ 160 gave him all the advantages and little disadvantages, if an - this weigh's heavily against him in terms of his overall standing in my opinion.

The named wins but not really relevant considering the advantages:

He fought Oscar DLH @ 156 while Oscar was @ 155 but only 2 years just 2 years - prior Oscar was fighting @ 147!!!! TWO weight divisions below (an emaciated) Hopkins and even when Oscar fought Floyd, a man much smaller than him Oscar flunked it which speaks volumes in my opinion for Oscars overall status; especially considering hes had till not 5 losses and only 38 wins.

Similar thing happened with Felix.

You cant honestly say these guys were expected to hold their own against a much bigger foe? Look at Hatton! How many times do we see this? Only the truly truly great can manage such leaps. Oscar & Felix were good, not great :S

So lets move onto the meaningful wins:

He did beat Tarver but Tarver was very 1-dimensional, watch the fight again. Tarver is a joke. He says he was drugged but he just did the same thing over and over and over again!!!! The man has a memory like a goldfish! Plus Hopkins was standing there the whole fight with that right covering his face from Tarver's left doing piston-like counters! How dumb and linear is Tarver? rewatch the fight & you'll see! Hopkins done well here but its certainly nothing to scream perfection about, Tarvers incredibly 1 dimensional and had Jones' number because he was gangly (tall) & a soutpaw, something uncommon to Jones.

Winky Wright was bloated to the nth degree and had little footwork, was much smaller and didnt really know what to do and even then that fight was incredibly close. People argue it both ways but in truth Ive only watched 9 rounds of it what does that tell you? I was bored out of my brains and neither man impressed me much.

His defenses:

20 odd average opponent defenses not including the named ones. Nothing special considering all the variables in the euqation.

The losses

I cant comment on the Taylor losses, it could go any way. I have my views, the official view and then theres everyone elses views for or against Hopkins. Close to call but close against man who isnt really that good in the gander scheme of things now lets be frank.

I dont need to go into Jones.

The Pros (as I see them)

He Beat Johnson and I rate Johnson as any regular on this site will testify. I really like Glen, I think the man may not be great but hes consistent and boy what a warrior! (though his voice makes me laugh) I give Hopkins massive praises for this.

Conclusion

Basically what I am getting it is Hopkins isnt this all conquering supremely smart fighter so many people think he is (in my view). Good yes, great, maybe. Legend? No. Ive followed boxing some years and Hopkins deserves props for what hes done yet the whole legend and super-smart image only manifested itself AFTER the Tarver win and before then i recall many fans questioning him on this very board!!!!!!!

Im not saying Joe is any better. Many say he is a comfort zone cherry picking fighter but what I am saying and what needs to be illustrated is Hopkins isnt this zeus-like figure of boxing he is far far too often made out to be, sorry guys. Theres the facts, take them as they are.

Peace.
Click to expand...

Good Post Masta :good

Log in or Sign up

Hopkins: An Analysis

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

cardstars Gamboa is GOD Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

TroubleLurks spell check Full Member

FRKO "A MAN" Full Member

sambob Active Member Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

Words Boxing Addict Full Member

bigtime-skills Well-Known Member Full Member

bigtime-skills Well-Known Member Full Member

MasterCalzaghe Guest

BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

Hopkins: An Analysis

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

cardstars Gamboa is GOD Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

TroubleLurks **** spell check Full Member

FRKO "A MAN" Full Member

sambob Active Member Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

Words Boxing Addict Full Member

bigtime-skills Well-Known Member Full Member

bigtime-skills Well-Known Member Full Member

MasterCalzaghe Guest

BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

TroubleLurks spell check Full Member