Hopkins at 40 jumped from 160-175 to fight the best

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by larryx2012, Feb 22, 2016.


  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    You're missing my point.

    Why would people ask Hopkins to move up when he wasn't a high profile name being pushed by the cable giant which is HBO?

    Since Golovkin is in a position where he has HBO's backing/blessing, his expectations will naturally be far greater.

    Ergo, your comparison isn't exactly valid in the way you're intending.

    Why Hopkins never got that same type of push is irrelevant. It's the fact that he didn't that separates the situations.

    :smoke
     
  2. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Nobody is pushing Golovkin to fight Kovalev but message board trolls.

    My point is very valid. You give an example of a 40 year old man moving up after he loses his belt, and ask Golovkin to do the same. Ok, wait for him to lose his belts and turn 40....

    Hopkins didn't move up to fight Tarver because he was pushed. He had no options at middle after losing to Taylor twice, and Tarver was a better match up for him than Calzaghe.
     
  3. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    You're still missing my point. Or maybe I'm not explaining it clearly?

    Fans never demanded Hopkins move up because he was never high profile. Golovkin is getting a big push from HBO - a push into the main stream, where they have been trying to groom Golovkin into a future superstar - and possibly even the future poster boy of boxing.

    Fighters who get the special limelight cable network push to starrdom - those being groomed as potential future superstars - have higher expectations than those who don't.

    Hopkins never celebrated that position. Golovkin DOES.

    So the pressure for Golovkin from fans to move up is to be expected. Because fan expectations for Golovkin are far superior to what anyone had for Hopkins at any point during his long and illustrious career.

    :smoke
     
  4. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    I don't care about what you think GGG should do.

    Is the thread starter saying "GGG should move up because of your perception of what a star should be?" NO.

    The thread starter is asking GGG to do the same as Hopkins.

    Is vacating titles and moving up in weight at 34 years of age the same thing Hopkins did? No.
     
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    This is the intelligence level on display.

    It's like telling a 34 year old to knock up his girlfriend because his 50 year old brother got married and had a kid when he was 40.
     
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    He may move up to SMW within the next few years.

    Let's just wait and see how his career unfolds.
     
  7. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Hopkins has a big frame for a light heavyweight 3 inches taller than Golovkin and 5 inches more reach. Moreover, he was a natural light heavy who killed himself to slim down to 160 and fight smaller overmatched opponents while ducking Roy Jones, James Toney, and all the other killers at super middleweight and light heavyweight in the first half of his career. When they were all washed up he jumped into a vastly diluted light heavyweight pool of nobodies to beat stepping stones like Shumenov and Murat. He jumped over Andre Ward and Carl Froch when that division was heating up.

    I'll give him credit for Pavlik, Tarver, Calzaghe, Pascal, and Kovalev, but that's the kind of guys he should have been fighting all along, and let's face it, he lost to Calzaghe, Kovalev, and Dawson when he finally stepped up.
     
  8. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    I love Bernard Hopkins....but he did jump right over SMW didn't he?

    He could have fought Ward or Froch or Kessler.
     
  9. Gneus7

    Gneus7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He fought Roy Jones at 160 so he didn't duck him.

    He didn't kill himself to make 160 otherwise he wouldn't have been able to compete at such a high level there, he is just a slim guy for his height.
     
  10. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    He jumped over SMW to face Tarver, who at the time was regarded as the top dog at 175, and also the guy who KO'd a career rival of his.

    Ward and Froch hadn't truly emerged by that point, and Kessler wasn't nearly as well known as Calzaghe, who himself wasn't regarded with the same esteem that Tarver was on the coat tails of that Jones victory.

    After his 2 fights with Taylor, even I figured Hopkins had bitten off more than he could chew. I was pleasantly surprised to see it play out otherwise.

    :smoke
     
  11. Gneus7

    Gneus7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He still fought the guy who was the #1 in the division at the time (Calzaghe) at a weight that was beneficial to them both.

    I think he also called out Froch but Froch/Hearn wasn't interested.
     
  12. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can't speak for or say what Rumsfield is thinking but to me it's the exact opposite of what he's trying to say. Golovkin has pressure from fans to move up to bigger challenges such as Ward who is campaigning at LHW but despite that GGG actually has less pressure to do it than Hopkins. People can set here and say that Hopkins had a place set in history before his move but that would just be projecting their own satisfaction onto Bhop. Bhop has the mentality that I love in a fighter. No matter is your name is in history or not, that place can be improved upon indefinitely. As Bhop is still proving today, he still has desire to further his rank among the record books and strive for a greater legacy. I can only imagine that that desire was greater at 40 years old. Bhop was not getting the attention he deserved from fans and the media so it put pressure on him to do something that nobody should expect a fighter to do in order to achieve something that only he has the willingness to achieve. More pressure than Golovkin has on him to do that same.

    Wait until Golovkin has achieved his first goal before you judge his desire to improve his legacy. It takes time and small steps. After all, A fighters career can last over 20 years. It's easy to get impatient when you visit the same forum and complain every day during those 20 years.
     
  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Yeah I know that, but he was still fighting after they had emerged. Couldn't he have dropped back down? I don't think he's ever officially weighed in at 175 even anyway. As for Tarver it was a calculated risk that Hopkins had an inkling would play in his favor, since Tarver had already lost to Johnson and Jones someone he stopped and had a close fight with.

    I'm just playing the contrarian again to all the GGG haters anyway.
     
  14. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure if there was ever really a point where those fights would have made sense.

    Hopkins fought Winky, Calzaghe, and Pavlik, I believe all in 2007-08.

    By the time 2009 rolled around he was having trouble getting fights, and Ward and Froch would go into a 2 year commitment in the Super 6. Hopkins was fighting Roy, Pascal x2, and then Dawson x2 as the Super 6 had come to a close.

    I suppose you can make the case one of those fights should have happened around 2013 onwards, but Froch was involved with rivalry fights against Kessler and Groves then, and Ward was more or less on the shelf while Kessler had become a non-factor.

    :conf

    But even by 2013, Hopkins had already exclusively campaigned at 170 or higher for like 7 years.

    It's worth noting he was - almost desperately - seeking a fight with Bute for a period at points around the time of the Super 6 (I forget when exactly, but it was prior to Bute losing to Froch).
     
  15. Eastpaw

    Eastpaw Boxing Addict Full Member

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    lol they're making response threads to my threads as well :lol: