Hopkins greater than Jones if he beats Kovalev

You're only comparing the above? Without allowing for any circumstances?

Do a head to head of each fighters top wins, including all circumstances.

 

Right, but you get my point.

It's great that we all have different opinions, it makes for a great debate.

But in my opinion, you're putting longevity over everything else.

 

Great post.

Roy's losses should definitely be taken into account, along with the manner of them.

But so should Bernard's.

But IMHO, Roy's overall wins, the manner of his victories, and his overall achievements, are factors that Bernard can't match.

 

I get that Bernard has never been knocked out and suffered defeats like Roy.

But IMHO, Roy still has the overall better wins, and he's definitely achieved more, without question.


Yes, Roy struggled with Tarver and Bernard didn't.

But in the first fight, Roy had dropped straight back from HW, and lost 20 plus pounds, half of which was actual muscle, all in a short space of time.

In the rematch, Roy was much better prepared, but Tarver caught him with the perfect shot.


Bernard beat Tarver easily.

But was Tarver's weight loss a factor?

People have different opinions on this.

My opinion is, Tarver's drastic weight loss definitely played a factor in his performance, but because of his famous 'Have you got any excuses tonight Roy?' comment, he couldn't blame the weight.

There's no way he could have mentioned it, because everyone would have reminded him what he'd said to Roy.

Which is why he claimed that he could have been poisoned.


So the my questions are as follows:

Could Roy have beaten Tarver easier, pre Ruiz?

Could Hopkins have beaten Tarver in the same manner, had it been against the versions of Tarver that Roy had fought?

Interesting.


But if you have the time, list what you think are all of Hopkins's best wins, and I'll do the same for Roy.

Malinga
Hopkins
Toney
Tate
Griffin
Hill
Johnson
Gonzalez
Woods
Ruiz
Tarver

List yours, and then we'll elaborate.

:good

 

Reggie Johnson.


Of course Tarver was one of Roy's best.

Due to the circumstances.

Roy was nearly 35, he'd had 50 fights, and he had to burn muscle in just over two months to make the weight.

Roy had seen other HW fights slip away, and Tarver was much fresher, and extremely motivated.

Roy was exhausted after the mid way point, and was running on fumes for the last three rounds.


This is why I'm asking people to look at certain circumstances.

Had Roy beaten Tarver in 99/2000, it wouldn't have meant as much.

But because of the circumstances above, it was one of Roy's best wins, if not his best win.


It also has historical significance.

Because when Roy dropped from HW, to regain the LHW belts, it made him only the 2nd fighter in history to do so.


List Bernard's best wins, and we'll do an objective comparison.

 

Hopkins needs a title at cruiserweight to be greater but you could certainly make a case that they are even in terms of overall resume.

 

True but that only makes the Jones win against a prime Hopkins much more significant. If Hopkins is so good that he's beating young guys up in their primes at almost 50 and then you look at what Roy Jones Jr did to him in his prime, that puts things into a certain context.

And then look at what Roy Jones Jr did to James Toney who went on to beat guys up at heavyweight including Evander Holyfield.

 

I'm talking his very best wins here.

I've purposely left off Paz, Sosa, McCallum, Del Valle, Hall, Telesco and Harding etc from Roy's resume.

You can't list guys like Daniels and Ornelas etc for Bernard.


Also, how can his victory over Roy mean anything?

Again, read what he said in 2008.


List his very best wins, and elaborate on them, then I'll do the same.

 

:good

 

Huge props to Hopkins for taking this fight. I don't like him but it's a ballsy move.

 

:good

 

Resume-wise, BHop is already much better than Roy.