Hopkins has to be top 10-15 ATG

Floyd may be a bit lighter than most of his opponents, but he's nearly always taller and longer. That's part of size.

Trinidad didn't have stamina issues. Pavlik didn't have stamina issues. They were both very heavy punchers. Hopkins was considered an old man when he fought Kelly. Pascal had stamina issues once frustrated, but he fought hard into the championship rounds against Dawson and never relented, so it's not fair to say it's a flaw Hopkins didn't provoke himself through ring generalship. Tarver was a big favorite because of his dominant wins over Jones, his size, his tricky style, and his skill.

I already broke down why Hopkins has the better wins. Hopkins does not have worse "cherry picking".

Floyd has no wins comparable to the Pavlik and Trinidad wins. Any advantage he might have had in size, he gave up in age and power. Floyd has a deep resume but his best win is outpointing a faded DLH. Tarver wasn't bigger? Pascal wasn't well-sized LHW? BHop even came in light on fight night to fight DLH at a more even size.

Mine is the direct opposite.

Jones > BHop > Manny > Floyd

Jones beat- no, dominated- Bernard Hopkins and James Toney in their physical primes. Nobody else on that list has a pair of wins that good.

BHop has a string of very good wins, I already mentioned his 5 top ones. I could see him being just ahead or just behind Manny. Manny's win over Barrera was solid, and his collection of wins over Morales, DLH, Cotto, Bradley, are solid.

Floyd lacks the signature win over a prime ATG like the rest have. But his strength is in his depth of resume. He beat numerous HOF fighters, many of them coming off impressive wins. He looked great pretty much every time out.

 

Actively:

Jones
Hopkins
Mayweather
Pacquiao


Pleaseee just deal with it.

 

It's VERY close....I kinda left that alone

 

Floyd have better wins than Pavlik and Trinidad.
Pavlik???? He beat Jermain taylor... . . . . . How does Floyd not have an opponent that tops Pavlik? I find that very strange from you Bog.

Oscar win is = to Bhop's win in trinidad. Why? Bc Bhop was the bigger guy whilest Floyd is the Smaller guy moving up. That should cancel out each other.

All four guys have their definiting wins.

Also, There is no such thing as prime ATG.

 

Of the four Greats IMO.

Jones got the weakest resume. I'll go into detail if i have to but this should be pretty obvious.

Bhop, Manny and Floyd all got great resumes. The tricky part become is how much credit do you give for their wins and take away on their losses factoring in what kind of circumstances. Thats the part that is up for debate.


Also, the most naturally gifted is Jones.
The most complete is Floyd
Pac is also very gifted in terms of power and speed but did he or did he not lanced? Who knows?
Bhop is probably the one who declines the slowest. The slow burning candle. I don't think the other 3 guys can fight as well as bhop at bhop's age, except maybe Floyd but Floyd will want to retire to keep his 0.

 

I'd say the faded DLH Floyd fought was not far off from the Pavlik win. But the Trinidad win is clearly the best between them. The Corrales victory is probably as good or better than Pavlik.

BHop was bigger but didn't impose his size on Trinidad. BHop was also older. Trinidad was also in his prime and was a dangerous puncher (as was Oscar, but Floyd was prime). Size alone doesn't really counteract those qualities. Put that version of DLH and Trinidad in a ring, I don't think Oscar is coming out on top like he did earlier in his career.

Not sure what you mean by that last one. Prime ATG's exist. As do faded ones.

Also confused by your assertion Jones has the weakest resume when he has the best pair of wins out of the bunch.

The question of who is more "complete" or "skilled" or "athletically gifted" is very secondary to resume, and it's on that premise I rank Jones ahead of BHop, BHop at level or ahead of Manny, and Manny ahead of Floyd.

 

Jones beat Hopkins with relative ease, and his domination of Toney is as great a win as there's been in the last 20 or so years. So yeah.

 

Are you ******ed or something? Give some respect to the WORLD champions he's fought. They has ammounted to something far more then a normal person would EVER do.

 

I took bhop to beat Pavlik and scored a nice payday off it. That win to me was a good win bc Bhop was considered old but i wouldn't even consider Pavlik as a A level fighter. I think tons of fights that Floyd has fought that surpass that. Almost everyone that FLoyd has fought with a name will beat Pavlik.

Both Bhop and Floyd doesn't use their size to their advantage. Although Bhop has used it more than Others with leaning on his opponents. Also the mere fact that Bhop started his career as a light heavyweight and then choose to drop down to fight guys smaller should account to something.

I will try to break the bhop/trinidad vs Floyd/Oscar

Bhop gets a point for being bigger. Tito moved up
Floyd gets a point for being smaller. Floyd moved up
Floyd gets a point.


Bhop got the experience advantage
Oscar has slight more advantage going into the fight. A point for Floyd.

Bhop is older so he gets a point
Oscar is older so Floyd doesn't get a point.

Oscar has all advantages and dictate the terms to neturalize him being "faded"
Bhop and Felix fought on equal terms. A point to Floyd.

So imo that is equallivent if not more than the Trinidad's win.

Size + experience vs lack of size/youth/forfiet all advantages.

 

@bogo

The part about who is most gift/complete is irrelvant.


But in terms of longetivy, length of dominance, consistencies should all be factored into the rankings. As well as when the fight took place.

Like i would place Manny higher than Floyd if not for the drained, the over the hill, the demanded edges, fighting guys after brutal losses.

Floyd's prime seem to last forever while Manny is not even 1/3 of the time. Manny was beatable, early, mid and late. Floyd has been the unsolved puzzle since he came to the scene.

Bhop is the same. He was beatable early, mid and late.

Jones is untouchable early, mid, to everyone decent have a shot to be able to beat him.

It shouldn't all boils down to how many big names is on paper as well we all know that the old gets fed to the young. The other factors plays a role as well.

If people factor every aspect in the game it should be clear that Floyd is number 1.

 

I agree with this entire post:deal

 

come on man...the Pavlik fight was at 170lbs...the Tarver fight was AFTER Tarver had to drop 40lbs from the Rocky Movie, Tarver looked like **** in that fight.

Pascal is nothing more than a buff c class fighter with some power, no skill at all.

Oscar DLH was still originally a lightweight that was in his 6th weight class man, B Hop is a natural MW. He had one fight vs Sturm and looked terrible, then he fights B Hop @ MW. That isnt impressive IMO. B Hop beating De La Hoya with a fake bodyshot after he got a gift decision vs Sturm.

B Hop spent 12 years racking up wins and fighting chumps @ MW and never wanted to move up to fight Roy again, to fight Toney....nothing.