Hopkins Jones Jr II is on

Ultimately i think the fact all these old guys have hung around so long and even been able to beat some of the fighters of this generation that were meant to be P4P and in their prime(Mosley margarito, Hops pavlik etc)is a damning indication of the weakness of this decade.


The story of this decade partially has been '90s men whipping the **** out of second rate overhyped up and comers.Way too many fighters getting hyped up before they do anything to really deserve it.

 

Agreed. Every time I see a thread on the General like "Should Joan Guzman be in the HOF?", a little piece of me dies.

 

Yes, Allen beat Tito Mendoza in an IBF eliminator as best i can work out.

 

Appreciate the reply mate. I'll get back to you on this in a couple of days. :good

 

You must be almost worn out on the topic, surely

 

Thanks amigo. Look forward to it. I definitely concede Hopkins was wrong to have the Winky fight at 170, but I disagree on the rest. :good

 

'ken oath JT

 

I guess my argument against Hopkins comes down to what is in bold. As a middleweight he hung around and fought guys that were NOT as good as guys that were north of him.

He has taken on some very/good names at the higher weights, but imo most have not been at their best in facing him there.

I say fair enough to this. Hopkins was starting to appear on p4p charts by around 1997 (e.g. in Ko Mag) though.

I don't think Michelczewski was really lacking the gravitas, he was in p4p charts, he was clearly distinguished as the best guy in the division bar Roy Jones and he had been calling out Roy for a while. I just think Roy was going through his 'reluctant' phase and probably still suffered from Seoul-itis and din't want any of it given that Dariusz wasn't exactly keen to come to the States to have the fight done.

It would have been a massive risk for Hopkins to go over to Germany and take on Dariusz, but hey, if he wanted to really force Roy into a fight with him, that would have been just the ticket. Surely a better method than the 50/50 garbage he was offering.

I'd say Bernard was more culpable. In 2001 there was no way known that Hopkins deserved an equal split with Jones given Jones' star power and accomplishments. 60/40 was a more than generous offer and Bernard walked away from it. Now sure, if Jones had bigger balls, he would have taken 50/50. But I can see why he didnt.

A fight with Calzaghe again would have been a high risk low reward fight for Hopkins because you are right that he didn't have the accomplishments or name to really put himself out on notice. Now, as far as talent goes, I think most people were aware very early on in Calzaghe's career that he was a greater talent than German thieves like Beyer and Ottke, and people were saying that he'd give Roy Jones a serious fight even back in the late 90's, but it's one of those fights that Hopkins wouldn't have entertained because of the risk/reward ratios.

Would it have been unreasonable for Hopkins to zero in on Calzaghe given the state of the game? Yeah I guess so. Would it have been better for boxing if guys actually faced the stiffest competition? Yeah, but i understand that it's not that easy in the current climate.

Was thinking Pavlik more so.

He talked big but he looked pretty ordinary even at 166 wouldn't you say? Mind you, he was always overrated, even at 160 imo, but that's a different (irrelevant) matter.

I think at the very least he should have fought Jones again (when he should have). I would have probably given him a free pass on everything else, even though I think he could have fought a few more decent guys during his middleweight prime (and even now with Dawson) and made some fights that were skewed to weights that favoured him (Winky, Pavlik, Calzaghe).

Fair enough, Floyd's scenario was quite worse, but still Winky was getting up there in age himself, looked quite small at 160 and to me looked like he had been slowing down for a while (e.g. in the Quartey fight he looked very very sloppy).

I addressed my thoughts on this in my above paragraph. :good

Well, we'll agree to disagree on this one.

Do you then at the very least acknowledge Hopkins would have had a harder time facing Calzaghe at 168, despite the fact that he could probably still make that weight?

There was no obligation for Hopkins to fight Pavlik at 160, in fact there was no obligation on him to fight him at all. Would rather than have seen Hopkins in with Dawson myself.

 

I'll admit myself that Hopkins isn't pulling ***** moves to the extent Floyd is, but it gets to me that Hopkins has been having all these 'legacy' fights and they are always being skewed in his favour. It also gets to me that the one 'real' legacy fight that was on the table for him, he refused to take (I speak of the Roy Jones fight).

Ultimately my beef here is this:Hopkins is 'managing' his career to put himself in the best possible light as a fighter. But he isn't going out and staking all that much in doing so. And in fact, by so doing, he is actually getting a better reputation than he deserves imo.

Right back atcha, and that's the way it goes mate :good

 

That's just what we need, a matchup between two up and coming young tigers atsch

 

Be nice to see Haye get this one out of the way ,then defend against a live one.

 

You could say Ali proved what a weak era the 70s were, Robinson proved what a weak era the 50s were and Duran proved what a weak era the 80s were if you want to go by that rational.

Hopkins/Mosley are greats and Pavlik/margarito arent really the best of this era

 

Pleasure talking with you mate, cheers for taking the time to respond. :good

 

I would agree with you Scientist in the respect that I dont believe his resume at 160 lbs is anywhere's near great.

......but who else could he have fought while he was at 160 lbs?
The middleweight division during his era was just weak.

I however do give merits to his wins over Tarver and Pavlik......I thought those were exellent wins considering his age.

Really I cant expect Hopkins to go after and fight the likes of Dawson at this point.......its been proven for a while now that Hopkins is'nt any different from any other great fighter at an advanced age, when he fights fighters who hold a speed and quickness advantage over him.

I Cant really blame a 45 year old for taking the fight against a shot Jones........
......but I would agree that one must chuckle to look back at how each of them, both Hopkins and Jones smacked talked at eachother for years, but were really afraid to face eachother at a time when the fight meant something and their legacy was on the line.

In a matchp now, the fight means nothing in terms of legacy, and since they're both at the end of the road, they somehow have talked themselves into believing that the fans still want to see this matchup.:nut