Hopkins or GGG

You're actually still trying to tote the Ward ducked GGG line? Seriously?

Ward got a 70-30 split when he challenged Kova for his titles, so I can't see how a 50-50 offer to GGG in a division where he didn't have a title would be bad. Ward's guarantee for Kova I (5 mil) was bigger than GGG:s for Canelo I (3 mil), so why is GGG the clear A side?

And if GGG:s camp was prepared to negotiate maybe they could have got better than half. There was a possibility that they could have become the A-side in a 168 match-up. But instead they turned down the offer instantly and said they wanted more than a 50-50 split and only at 164 lbs. They must have known that would have been a non starter for Ward.

So they'd gone from "at 168 lbs but not the B-side" in 2013 when it was all hypothetical to "the A-side and only at 164 lbs" two years later when an actual offer was made. And they never came back later with an offer themselves, just floated suggestions. It's frankly delusional to from there reach the conclusion that Ward was the one avoiding GGG.

Again, GGG was under no obligation to go up to 168 and face Ward. But don't make tough guy noises about being willing to do that and then when an offer actually is made instantly turn it down and say that it has to be at 164. That's just annoying.

 

GGG's the A-side because he pulls viewership. Nobody wants to see "bored" Ward fight. The guy that paid 5 mill to Ward is probably still beating himself up about it. Ward is certainly a tough and shrewd negotiator, I will give him that. That doesn't mean he can pull viewers in.

To repeat from my previous comment, which you seemed to have missed entirely:


“When they were originally talking about fighting Gennady,

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. My response was clear - if Andre was at 168 we can make that fight."

It's somewhat disingenuous to send an offer in an hour after the Lemieux fight is signed and expect to start negotiating then, especially with a Canelo or Cotto fight on the horizon. Canelo and Cotto both **** all over Ward in terms of generating income. You get that, right?

You seem to have entirely missed this quote that I posted in my previous comment:

"“We’ve always said that Gennady could move up to 168 if it made sense. We tried to make the Chavez fight [at 168]. We tried to make the Froch fight [at 168]. Now [Gilberto] Ramirez is talking about fighting Triple G. He’s an undefeated 168 pound champion. Andre Ward, he’s got the Kovalev rematch. If he can win that one and come back down to 168 - I think that's a great fight,” said Loeffler to *******.com.

Ward's response we all know:

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He made 6,5 mil guaranteed for the rematch, so they repeated it with interest,

If it's something the GGG camp shows then it is that talk is cheap.

in 2013 they say that GGG is ready to face Ward at 168 if he's not the B-side. But when they get an offer where he is not the B-side they reject that out of hand and say: "When it came it Ward, Loeffler and Golovkin's trainer Abel Sanchez made it very clear that a catch-weight of 164-pounds would be required." https://www.*******.com/roc-nation-gggs-team-turned-down-ward-36-minutes--96761

So when the actual offer came 168 was not acceptable under any conditions, despite having said before they would fight Ward at 168 as long as it wasn't as the B-side. They went back on their previous hyperbole.

Then another two years later, when Ward has moved up to 175 lbs, they make noise about a 168 lbs fight, but no formal offer. Just noise. If Ward felt that ship had sailed, I can understand that. If they were even serious or just employed it as a tactic to get Canelo to sign by trying to show they had other options, I don't know. My guess is the latter.

So people can decide for themselves who seemed most interested in a fight. For me it's clear that it was Ward. And I have no problem with GGG not wanting the fight at 168 lbs. But I have a problem with his people saying they want the fight at 168, then chicken out and say that it has to be a catchweight of 164 for them to consider it.

Now I have repeated the same thing several times, so I'll stop here for now concerning this part.

 

You're having a majorly hard time understanding that Ward did not bring the viewers in. His getting 5, 6 million per fight means absolutely nothing in terms of being an A or B side fighter. That's because his opponents ARE NOT getting the benefit of Ward's inflated salary. There's absolutely no incentive for them to make any concessions to him, especially since he actively tries to sabotage the PPV's.

Let's be clear about this:

"But there's nothing for Kovalev to be angry about as Ward's promoter, Jay Z's Roc Nation, is willing to take a loss. Jay Z is investing in his fighter, Andre Ward. Why should he invest in Andre's opponent?

"Ward has a sugar daddy [Jay Z] who pays him $7 million for this fight, OK?, " Egis Klimas, Kovalev’s manager, told *******.com. In fact, Klimas insists Ward has done less to promote the event, knowing it would negatively impact Kovalev's revenue.

“Sergey is working for every dime he makes,” Kathy Duva, Main Events’ chief executive officer recently told *******.com.

“The other is guy is getting paid by somebody [Jay Z] who’s gonna pay him more money than [the company] is going to take in."

https://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/6843-andre-ward-net-worth-purse-for-kovalev-rematch-and-jay-z

Let me repeat: the guy that paid Ward 5-6 mill MADE A LOSS.

That offer that came in the moment after GGG had already signed to fight? Yeah, I guess they realised ward was not serious.

That's the offer that Virgil Hill and the rest of Ward's team was ecstatic to receive. There was one very simple way to find out. Say yes to the 168 offer and cash in on the #easywork. But we all know what Ward said: "No."

Except for, you know, that Golovkin did eventually cave in to Ward's 168 demand and Ward still didn't want it.

 

This video tells you all you need to know how they felt about fighting Andre Ward.

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He claims that if they beat Ward they would have been expected to move up and beat Wladimir Klitschko. Obviously nonsense.

He then claims they would be unable to get any fights if they beat Ward. But how would they get fights after beating Froch or Chavez , but not Ward?

Sanzhez clearly did not see the benefit of beating Ward because he knew it was a fight GG had no hope of winning. He wouldn't have just lost either , he would have lost badly in a way that would have ruined his reputation. They wanted no part of the fight and thats fine until you see him calling out semi-retired Carl Froch and a host of smaller guys from lower weight classes like Floyd , Manny , Bradley , 42 Y/O Hoya , Cotto etc.

Speaking of Cotto , Canelo had to take the low end of the split to get that fight made. Had to agree to all of Cotto's demands and in the end only got $5M to Cotto's $15M.

Canelo was the A-side against Cotto yet had to accept the much lower end of the split.

It certainly wasn't the fair 50/50 split that was on the table for GGG to fight Ward. And GGG at the time wasn't even a quarter of the draw Canelo was when he fought Cotto.

Cotto would have bent GG over the table and offered him peanuts for that fight. Remember Martinez only got $1M and he held the belt!

Canelo who was coming off 350,00 PPV buys against Lara only got $5M , what do you think GG would have got? He was a PPV flop as the numbers of the Lemiuex fight showed and Cotto would have treated him like a random contender.

So GGG vs Cotto was never ever possible and Cotto's name was only used by Able as a deflection tactic to avoid Wards offers.
They brushed Ward to the side in favour of fights with Dom Wade and 147 Kell Brook. The proof is right there for everybody to witness!!

 

Very, very strange then, that Ward never took a fight that (according to you) was a 100% lock at a weight his own damn trainer says was ideal for him.

"“We’ve always said that Gennady could move up to 168 if it made sense. We tried to make the Chavez fight [at 168]. We tried to make the Froch fight [at 168]. Now [Gilberto] Ramirez is talking about fighting Triple G. He’s an undefeated 168 pound champion. Andre Ward, he’s got the Kovalev rematch. If he can win that one and come back down to 168 - I think that's a great fight,” said Loeffler

and yet ... yet, faced with a 100% winnable fight, his big payday over a great fighter:

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That's my position.

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Dino likes inventing **** on the fly, however, because the source material often doesn't agree with what he's inventing.

 

Your right he should have!! I thought they were razor close fights both of them with B-hop taking the win,, If GGG doesn't start pulling the trigger I'd favor a prime Taylor over GGG as well at 40,,

 

The fight between GGG and Ward shouldn't have ever taken place in my book. GGG is to small for Ward,, Ward fought as a light heavy during the majority of his Amateur career,, GGG is a small middleweight by modern standards,

 

Yeah, I see a quite clear win for Ward.

 

With the exception of one poster I think that is what we all see as the most likely scenario

 

Different levels

H2H - I despise Hopkins personality and fighting style but he's on a different level to GGG who couldn't pin down or hurt Daniel Jacobs or the tortoise Canelo, how the hell is he going to do **** against Hopkins ?? As for resume and legacy well Hopkins actually beat good fighters convincingly over a long period whereas GGG has not.

 

Hopkins is an early 1900's fighter who time travelled into our era

 

Hopkins is too slick and willing to use dirty tactics to win, and has enough power to earn GGG’s respect or hurt him. Hopkins decision

 

Tommy Burns had how many defenses heavy title before he got in the ring true champion one and only Jack Johnson