Daood: I'm still in this thread because you have yet prove that hopkins would have beat Toney. I've posted that Toney and hopkins were scheduled to fight. I believe that Toney is willing to fight any man, anywhere as he has proved from my viewpoint, but Mr. hopkins has had scheduled fights with a number of fighters in higher weight division but somehow those fights never materialize and I believe those fights didn't take place because of hopkins. hopkins has better movement? I would rather watch a fighter sit in the pocket and make his opponent miss and counter as oppose to watch someone moving around in the ring and then throw one punch and clinch! Sorry but your the one who needs to crawl back into his cave!
you fools. hopkins is superior to toney in every way except for staying in the pocket, BUT his overall inside game is probably on par. hopkins was very versatile and unlike toney could use his legs. TONEY cannot fight on the front foot...HOPKINS in the '90s could be an offensive, stalking machine with duran-like aggression TONEY has had very questionable wins/draws in his prime against men who are able to outwork him...HOPKINS would have a hey day against folks like glen johnson. -a green hopkins was able to land more shots on RJJ and make roy miss more than any man roy had ever fought. he lost, but he wasn't embarassed...toney on the other hand looked foolish -stylistically, toney and his flat-footed style was always gonna be weak against the nunn's and jones' of boxing. hopkins' more well rounded boxing skills and abilities meant he matched up well against ALL styles. -bhop is a true, old school fighter who stays in shape. toney is a fat ****.
buddy, you need to stop being a hypocrite. beside, it doesn't matter if what toney does looks "cooler" to you. in the end, what hopkins does accomplishes the same thing. i hate the fact that people overpraise toney's inside defensive skills for staying flatfooted on the inside, but disregard the fact that bhop when he was younger accomplished the same things...but just because he actually had the ability to use his legs he's all of a sudden not as "old school". **** that. you've proven over and over that all you can point out is how an OLD hopkins fights today, and it's obvious you've never seen how scary he was in the '90s. watch youtube vids of his destruction of a young glen johnson if you have a chance...plenty of the same defensive maneuvers as toney mixed in with boxer-punching as well.
There were negotiations for Toney-Hopkins, but it fell through. It was pretty well publicized among boxing circles, it even made the cover of The Ring. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2003-05-20-hopkins-toney-set_x.htm Hopkins to fight Toney at 190 pounds By Dan Rafael, USA TODAY Undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins will move up 30 pounds to challenge cruiserweight champion James "Lights Out" Toney. After three weeks of intense negotiations, Toney promoter Dan Goossen and Hopkins promoter Don King reached agreement Tuesday, Goossen told USA TODAY. King was unavailable for comment. HBO Pay-Per View will telecast the August fight, probably from Las Vegas' Mandalay Bay. Hopkins, 38, will attempt to move from 160 pounds, where he has made a middleweight-record 17 title defenses, to meet 190-pound champ Toney, 34, a former middleweight and super middleweight champ with skills similar to Hopkins'. Hopkins is expected to receive about $3.5 million, Toney about $2.5 million. "We just want to get this guy in the ring," said Goossen, whose personal animosity toward Hopkins stems from a short and stormy promotional relationship that ended in a 2000 legal battle. "You can say all day that you can whoop me, but you still got to do it," Toney said. "But when the bell rings, I'm going to kick his butt. We were both middleweights, and I should have knocked him out in (1993) before I went up to super middleweight." http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/May-22-Thu-2003/sports/21374935.html Toney to put title on line vs. Hopkins Cruiserweight belt at stake in August fight By KEVIN IOLE REVIEW-JOURNAL James Toney, who reinvigorated his career with a victory over Vassiliy Jirov last month, will put his cruiserweight title on the line in August against undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. Promoter Dan Goossen said terms have been agreed to but contracts have not been signed. But Goossen said that is not an impediment and the fight will proceed, probably Aug. 2, Aug. 9 or Aug. 16 on pay per view. Mandalay Bay is the front-runner for the bout, but Goossen said he is considering East Coast venues, too. Toney (66-4-2), who once had the middleweight title, had hoped to parlay his cruiserweight title victory into shots against heavyweights Roy Jones Jr. or Chris Byrd. But Toney, who will make $2.5 million, said Hopkins is enough to satisfy him. Hopkins (42-2-1) is to make $3.5 million. "You say Bernard Hopkins is one of the great middleweight champions of all time, but he can't be considered great when all he's done is fight a series of bums," Toney said. "I fought the best middleweights who were out there when I was the champ. Look in the record books and you'll see I fought all the tough guys there were, not a lot of these second-rate guys like Antwun Echols or Robert Allen who he's fought." Neither Hopkins, 38, nor his promoter, Don King, could be reached for comment Wednesday. But Goossen, who used to promote Hopkins until Hopkins sued him, said Hopkins planned to weigh 175 pounds when he challenges Toney. The middleweight limit is 160 pounds, the light heavyweight limit is 175 and cruiserweight is 190. Hopkins weighed 158 1/2 for his last fight, an eighth-round technical knockout of Morrade Hakkar on March 29 in Philadelphia. Hopkins is a certain Hall of Famer who has the middleweight record with 17 consecutive successful title defenses. But Toney said he possesses the better skills. "I can box, I can punch and I can do whatever he wants to do, plus my power is devastating," Toney said. "I'll break him in half is what I'll do." Toney, 34, said he's not upset that he'll make less than Hopkins even though it will be his title at stake. "I'm a smart guy, and I know that I may be taking the short money in this fight, but this is a fight that will set me up to earn them bigger checks down the road," Toney said. "I'm fine with it. I just can't wait to get that guy in the ring." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2003-06-10-no-toney-hopkins_x.htm Toney-Hopkins fight disintegrates By Dan Rafael, USA TODAY An Aug. 9 fight between cruiserweight champ James Toney and undisputed middleweight champ Bernard Hopkins, who planned to challenge a man 30 pounds bigger, was called off Tuesday night. HBO PPV pulled the plug because promoter Don King could not deliver Hopkins' services. King had agreed to pay Hopkins $3.5 million but when he couldn't convince HBO PPV and host site Mandalay Bay to increase the guarantees, King wanted to shave at least $500,000 from Hopkins' purse. Hopkins refused a cut. "It comes down to a fight between Don and Bernard," said Toney promoter Dan Goossen. "We stepped to the plate. We did everything we said we were going to do. We had no problem accepting the terms even though they were in Bernard's favor." Toney, who was to earn $2.5 million, will explore other fights, Goossen said. "I don't think the timing is right for any rescheduling. We won't wait for Hopkins. We've got to move on and fight people who want to fight."
Yes, he had better movement and it would give him the advantage over Toney in a H2H matchup. Nobody cares if you'd rather watch Toney fight than an old Hopkins (which is what you just described). Most people would rather watch Arturo Gatti than Pernell Whitaker. Does that make Gatti a better all around fighter?
My point wasnt that there was no talk of a fight...it was that the fight DIDNT MAKE SENSE...and had little to do with money or "chance of a loss". The original poster I quoted said... When in reality it wasnt about the money OR the opponent, but the fact that ONE - he would lose a chance at history...TWO - he would lose his belt...THREE - he would have to jump 3 weight classes to do so... What is the sense in any of that? Does this mean he ducked Toney like the poster suggested, or is it that he was chasing history and was firmly entrenched at MW (as opposed to LHW like he is now)? (edit: reading my original wording I can see why you guys mistook my words...my mistake...I never meant "make it up" in the sense that it didnt happen...only that the poster was distorting the facts to make Hopkins look bad)
Can you explain how hopkins movement being better helped him in the fight with Calzaghe? Can you explain how hopkins movement in the first six rounds in both fights with Taylor gave hopkins the advantage in those fights?
A young Glen Johnson was a green fighter and hopkins didn't have to use virtually no defense because Glen wasn't throwing many punches. He spent most of the time covering up. Site a better example. I'm proving that Toney is a better fighter and would have beat hopkins. Whether it was the 90's or 2003 when they was suppose to have fought but Mr. hopkins pulled out of the fight.
Daood: Let me rephrase my statement to address this matter. Toney sitting in the pocket making hopkins miss and counter him would help him win the fight against hopkins. hopkins lateral movement in most cases has no countering offensive punch output.
