hopkins vs ggg

Life is defined by circumstances and opportunity.

It's always unfair to try and do direct comparisons between two fighters. Especially if they fought in different eras and at different weights.

To be fair, it's better to ask your type of questions after both guys have retired. Then you can use in depth, objective criteria to fairly rank them.

I agree that Bernard has obviously achieved more. But things look very different if you look at where Bernard was at GG's age.

At GG's current age of 33, Bernard hadn't fought the likes of Tito, Holmes, Joppy, Echols, and Vanderpool etc. At that point, his biggest wins were against the likes of Johnson, Jackson, Allen and Mercado.

Also, none of us can predict the future. We don't know who GG will go on to fight, and we don't know what opportunities he'll be presented with. The other thing to consider, is that in my opinion, Bernard is naturally bigger than GG, so it might be a stretch for GG to fight at LHW.

 

The Shockmaster,

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. In my honest opinion, Bernard only took on the LHW's when he'd done all he could at MW, and he'd got nothing to lose and everything to gain. I've got a lot of respect for him, and his longevity is incredible. But I have to question why he made huge sacrifices to fight in a weak MW division, when he could have fought better guys at SMW and moved to LHW earlier.

Regarding Ward, A fight just isn't viable at the moment for both guys. And I say that as a fan of both of them.

Regarding Canelo, GG is well within his rights to tell him to get f*cked. Saying that he'd go under 160 for big fights, isn't the same as defending his MW belts below the MW limit. The circumstances are completely different.

If we were currently in 1998, where Bernard would have been GG's current age, you may now be questioning Bernard's marbles. You may be on this forum asking why Bernard wasn't fighting SMW's/LHW's, to instead fight the Robert Allen's of the world.

Possibly. But be fair and let's see how the rest of GG's career unfolds.

Again, let's see what happens. Although I can't envisage GG fighting elite fighters at 50, he could go on to have some great wins before he retires.

 

I can understand you have issues with fanboys who aren't objective. But I'm not one of them. Frankly, I'm sick of these childish members who force you to choose sides. It's both ridiculous and pathetic. If you criticise Ward, you're labelled a GG fan. If you criticise GG, you're labelled a Ward fan. And with Manny and Floyd, it's even worse. Apparently it's illegal to like all of those guys.

Again, I'll give anyone an objective debate. My opinions are both honest, and based on logic.

Regarding a Ward fight, like I've mentioned in my previous post, I can see why both guys wouldn't want that fight at the moment.

Regarding Canelo, again nobody (in my opinion) should have an issue with GG's stance.

I agree that if Bernard had stopped after the Taylor fights, he wouldn't be ranked as high as he is today. Again, we'll just have to wait and see what GG goes on to achieve before he retires.

Basically, avoid the idiots and seek out the better members to debate with, while enjoying how his career unfolds.


:good

 

The Shockmaster,

:good

Like I say, I think he'll move up as soon as he's obtained all of the MW belts. It's a weak division, but it's a prestigious division, and GG's a natural MW, whereas again, I don't believe that Bernard was.

Of course it would be better if GG fought the winner of Canelo vs Cotto, rather than fighting for a vacant title if either one of those guys relinquished the belt and moved back down. But if that happened, I'd be absolutely disgusted with either one of them. Canelo weighs 170 plus on fight night, and if he doesn't think he can commit to fighting MW's, he shouldn't be able to fight for the belt in the first place.

If he beats Cotto, he would have no right whatsoever to defend the MW title at a CW. And from what I've read over the last month, I don't think he could make that stipulation.

I understand that GG has made comments saying he'd fight big fights between 154-168. But again, that would be to fight a huge fight against the likes of Floyd at 154, not to unify his own division at a CW. Canelo is completely out of order. And if Canelo wins and drops back because GG doesn't comply, I hope people criticise Canelo and not GG. Boxing is becoming a joke.

 

The Shockmaster,

Catch weights can be great, depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes great fights can be made. But I don't agree that titles should be at stake, and it's a joke for any guy to a win a title, and then say he'll only defend it at a catch weight.

Regarding Manny, I think it's a joke that he's gone down in history as a JMW champ.

Again, I don't think either guy can make GG fight at a catch weight.

Yes, I would be disgusted if they vacated.

If Cotto and Canelo don't want to play with the big boys, then they should stay at JMW.

Again, it depends what the circumstances are. GG already has two MW belts. Canelo hasn't even fought at MW before, but he's more than happy to fight for the lineal MW belt. So how would it be acceptable for him to expect a fellow MW champ to come down to a catch weight for a huge unification?

Nobody could justify that.

Canelo has stepped into GG's pond, GG hasn't stepped into Canelo's pond.

If Cotto or Canelo drop the belt, they will lose an awful lot of respect throughout the boxing world.

Why should we accept it?

You're missing the point.

Again, if Canelo beat Cotto, he would have no right to demand that a fellow MW title holder, had to meet him at a catch weight for a huge unification fight. It's the principle.

If he didn't have the title, things may be different.

I couldn't justify GG winning a SMW belt, and then saying he'd only defend it a catch weight.

I couldn't justify Ward winning a LHW belt, and then saying he'd only defend it at a catch weight.

It would be a joke. And hopefully, it wouldn't be allowed to happen.

Once again, you've missed the point.

Why should a multiple MW title holder have to defend his belts at a catch weight?

Yes, he's 34 and he needs a big fight. But that doesn't mean he's going to bow down to a guy who weighs in as LHW on fight night.

Are you seriously telling me, that if Canelo beats Cotto but then drops the belt if GG doesn't agree to his demands, that you'd criticise GG instead?

 

The Shockmaster,

Apparently, the WBC have stated that whoever wins, has to face GG next.

How could you not criticise Canelo for winning the lineal MW belt, but then demanding a catch weight to defend it?

Nobody could justify that.

Fighting a guy like Floyd at JMW, is not the same as defending two MW belts at a catch weight.

How can you not see the difference?

 

Who said canelo would have to drop the belt if ggg won't fight him? The WBC might let him keep it......


WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman says that the winner of the Saul “Canelo” Alvarez vs. Miguel Cotto fight will have to face WBC interim champ Gennady Golovkin. Whether they actually do so is another question. Cotto and Canelo have both seemed less than excited about fighting Golovkin when asked about it.

The rumored pay-per-view numbers for Golovkin’s fight against David Lemieux last Saturday night obviously won’t help matters. The Golovkin-Lemieux fight is rumored to have brought in only 125,000 pay-per-view buys on HBO.

“The winner of Cotto and” Canelo “has to face Golovkin,” Suliaman said via am.com.mx. “That is stipulated. It is a fight that may be made until next year. In November it will be Cotto-‘Canelo ‘, so the winner will start negotiations and the fight against Gennady could be around March or April.”

Cotto is nearing the end of his career, and I don’t believe for a second that he’ll agree to fight Golovkin if he gets past Canelo on November 21st in their fight in Las Vegas, Nevada. Canelo’s promoter Oscar De La Hoya has already talked about having an immediate rematch between Cotto and Canelo for next year, and maybe even a trilogy. That means we could be seeing Cotto and Canelo face each other three consecutive times.

Whoever Wins does not want this Fight....We will see who is a True Warrior after these two fight.!!!!

 

I remember Hopkins said that this fight would be easier than Pavlik and he sounded very confident about that, I think he definitely fell under the "slow guy who hits hard means no boxing skills" mindset.

 

I understand the frustration.

I feel the same.

I'd rather him fight a big fight against Cotto/Canelo at a CW, rather than him fighting someone for the vacant belt if either of those guys relinquish it.

But I wouldn't criticise him at all if he refused to comply with their demands.

What's right is right.

Try and see things from his perspective.

A guy who weighs 172 on fight night, moves up and wins the lineal MW belt, then tries to make him defend his own belts at a CW?

It's disgusting.