Hopkins vs Pavlik: Be Real AMSTERDAM!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BITCH ASS, Jul 18, 2008.


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  1. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    I rewatched Hopkins/Calzaghe last night. When did the tide turn for Joe? When he started to shorten up his punches. Pavlik starts out that way so he is already ahead of where Calzaghe started. Hopkins will have to work even harder against Pavlik. Just don't see how he can do that at his age.
     
    Hermit, Jul 19, 2008
    Hermit, Jul 19, 2008
    #46
  2. BITCH ASS

    BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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    Why?

    Remember when nobody thought Roy Jones would ever lose and then Tarver landed that punch that shocked the world?

    Everybody can get knocked out and while Pavlik does get hit it's almost always when he's opening up, and that's usually the case when you're an offense first fighter, as the opponent has no choice but to attempt to counter.

    The thing is, Hopkins doesn't really have the legs on him to beat Pavlik at this point in his career. He has a great style as he is a better boxer by Pavlik and his experience and ring smarts will make it a difficult fight regardless of his Hopkin's age, but the fact is that he is 44 years old and his age is catching up to him.

    In his last fight, just as Calzaghe was turning it on and it finally was turning into a real fight, Hopkins pulled a ***** move because from my point of view, he just didn't have enough left in his tank and he didn't want to take any punishment.

    With Pavlik though, Pavlik is going in there to kill him, and those right hand counters won't be as effective as they were against Calzaghe because of the difference in stances. Aside from which, Jermain Taylor showed a good left jab, and a sharp right hand that were faster and harder than anything that Hopkins is going to throw.

    If Hopkins IS to land a punch that Pavlik doesn't see coming, chances are even if he successfully knocks Pavlik down, if a man 15 years younger than him in Taylor failed to knock Pavlik out, what makes you think Hopkins, who didn't even try to finish of Calzaghe at his best possible chance in the fight can?

    So, Hopkins will be on his bike for the entire fight and as far as his offense is concered, aside from the ability to fight going backwards and use of his head and constant clinching, it will be nothing that Pavlik hasn't seen before.

    And while Hopkins can fight going backwards, it's his defense that is key and not his athleticism and physical ability which won't worry Pavlik like Taylor did who as I previously said throws fast, accurate combinations, so it's likely that Pavlik will just march foward.

    Honestly, I can see this fight ending in a KO. Hopkins is 44 years old. This is a classic changing of the guard fight.
     
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    #47
  3. 196osh

    196osh Mendes Bros. Full Member

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    My point still stands. If Hopkins can take away Pavliks jab, which he will be able to, how does Pavlik set up his offence, particularly with the fact he does not have very fast hands?

    Also Avatar bet that Hopkins does not get stopped?
     
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    #48
  4. death

    death Active Member Full Member

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    Basically:yep
     
    death, Jul 19, 2008
    death, Jul 19, 2008
    #49
  5. billyconn

    billyconn Active Member Full Member

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    really going out on a limb there...with your avatar bet...:roll:
     
    billyconn, Jul 19, 2008
    billyconn, Jul 19, 2008
    #50
  6. 196osh

    196osh Mendes Bros. Full Member

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    Ahh being a **** are we?

    He said: "Honestly, I can see this fight ending in a KO. Hopkins is 44 years old"

    I feel that is 100% not going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Pavlik win though.
     
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    #51
  7. BITCH ASS

    BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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    You mean to tell me Pavlik sets up his offense with his jab?

    You don't say.

    I guess he's the only fighter in the history of the game to do that.

    WHO doesn't SET THEIR offense up with the jab?

    And don't say Floyd, because if you ever see him on full on attack mode, he uses his jab too, but he mostly a defensive fighter, so you won't see it utilized as much as you would with other fighters.
     
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    #52
  8. 196osh

    196osh Mendes Bros. Full Member

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    What I am saying is that Pavlik lacks the handspeed to throw lead punches.

    Also it takes a damn good fighter to take away Kelly Pavliks jab, so if for example he goes in against somebody who can take it away, either by out jabing him or through using the right hand he is in bad shape.

    Particularly because he cannot beat Hopkins inside.
     
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    196osh, Jul 19, 2008
    #53
  9. BITCH ASS

    BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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    Anyone notice that I got 100 extra hits because I added "Amsterdam" in the title?
     
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    BITCH ASS, Jul 19, 2008
    #54
  10. klion22

    klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think all of your points make sense. But you are underestimating the one factor you mentioned and that's the boxing skill of Hopkins. If Hopkins can maintain some level stamina, he's got a shot. But that's the biggest factor IMO because if the stamina is there, he's going to easily outbox Pavlik. Hopkins simply does not get hit flush. And Pavlik is very conventional and methodical and that plays right into Hopkins' weasel like boxing style. He will get in plenty of flush, right hand leads as long as he's throwing them. He will clinch. He will hold. Then move. And do it all over again. He's going to make it ugly.

    So i think this fight simply comes down the how much stamina Hopkins has left.
     
    klion22, Jul 19, 2008
    klion22, Jul 19, 2008
    #55
  11. klion22

    klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And i would like to add, much credit to Mr. Hopkins for taking on such serious challenges at this stage of his career. I mean TaylorX2, Tarver, Winky, Calzaghe, and now Pavlik? Freaken crazy.
     
    klion22, Jul 19, 2008
    klion22, Jul 19, 2008
    #56
  12. billyconn

    billyconn Active Member Full Member

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    it's a who's who list as of late that's for sure.....
     
    billyconn, Jul 19, 2008
    billyconn, Jul 19, 2008
    #57
  13. JdMcNudgent

    JdMcNudgent Member Full Member

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    Same with Zartuche, Miranda, and Taylor..... There is alaways time for a first
     
    JdMcNudgent, Jul 19, 2008
    JdMcNudgent, Jul 19, 2008
    #58
  14. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    It's because I'm so fabulous.:yep
     
    Amsterdam, Jul 19, 2008
    Amsterdam, Jul 19, 2008
    #59
  15. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    Time for you to be a little bit real.

    The only reason you're thinking Hopkins is as bad as he is, is because he lost to Joe Calzaghe in a way that made him seem like there was no gas left in the tank and no ability to keep any type of workrate together.

    Ultimately, these are hallmarks of Joe Calzaghe fights, where his opponent often tires out and is ineffective from around the 6th onwards, this is something we've seen him do against the majority of his twelve round victims.

    Hopkins was still able to land shots no other would hand on Calzaghe and still able to stop Calzaghe from dominating him when he was on the ropes, again, something no one else has done to Calzaghe.

    It is really only your dislike of Calzaghe that makes you feel Bernard Hopkins is unable to challenge Kelly Pavlik, disregarding performances over Tarver and Winky Wright, both of which he was the underdog and rose up to win.

    Bernard Hopkins is not shot, he is still a force at any weight between 160-175 as he has the mindset, mentality and defensive abilities to keep him that way.

    Pavlik's best hope is to come forward and attempt to flood Hopkins with punching, we saw what happened when Joe tried this, he tasted several right hand counter shots, one of which put him down.

    Styles are more important than age, Hopkins has a style that is perfect for busting up an aggressive workrate fighter if they can't find different angles and put up with the rough housing in close.

    Joe put up with the rough housing, the cheap tactics, Bernard faking a low blow. As much as I want to see Pavlik triumph, this could be the dumbest move in history by his team, because his style is all wrong for a cat like Hopkins.

    I'm expecting a Hopkins UD, mainly because I realise one thing that most don't want to realise - Hopkin's gave a potential ATG the toughest fight of his life and had people thinking he may have won, just a couple months ago.
     
    PugilisticPower, Jul 19, 2008
    PugilisticPower, Jul 19, 2008
    #60
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